NAGA'S:an open thread

[Snogger]

Lots of people love nagas, so i have decided to make a naga thread. nagas, if you dont know, are mythological creatures that are half snake and half human, in other words, the are like land-mermen. nagas can come in all shapes and sizes, and thats what is so fun about drawing them.

feel free to post you nagas here

rules

1. your picture must be of a naga (duh)
2. helpufl hints are accepted but no over-critising.
3. share the back-story to your naga character, it makes everything much more interesting.
4. be as creative as possible
5. be nice and have fun

here is a naga of mine. his name is mercury and he is 60% female and 40% male (birth defect) and he can have babies. he chooses to be called a he. these are his two new born twins, Tasha (red head girl) and Wynet (white haired boy). this was drawn in mechanical pencil and painted over in photoshop CS2

[Snogger]

after i scanned the pencil drawing of the picture above, i made a colour mockup with copic pens.

[Nexus]

Eh, Nagas are ok but I don't know how much of a thread will spring up from them. Not really interesting enough. The dragon thread has 10 or so pages because everyone knows about dragons, Nagas are more of an afterthought creature at least in my mind. We'll see what happens though.

[Snogger]

Originally Posted by Nexus

Eh, Nagas are ok but I don't know how much of a thread will spring up from them. Not really interesting enough. The dragon thread has 10 or so pages because everyone knows about dragons, Nagas are more of an afterthought creature at least in my mind. We'll see what happens though.

i wasnt rying to compete with the dragon thread ^^; i just thought this might be a nice idea

[ruzkin]

I think you may meet with some resistance here, Snogger - most people on CA are here to become professionals, study art techniques like anatomy, lighting, textures. To learn to be a pro artist, you need to practice everything and focus on being able to recreate real life with your art - not get stuck in a cycle of creating and drawing the same manga stylised fantasy characters over and over.

You may want to do some anatomy and portrait studies, maybe start a sketchbook thread where we can see your progress, before posting in the Finally Finished section again.

[Xpose]

yea people who draw anime do have a hard time on this site. There's been all kinds of discussions and debates over it but none of them have been too nice. We all do love good anime like http://www.alien1452.com/ who is a member here and does really great stuff! It's not that your stuff isn't okay because it is. I really like your coloring of the the Naga but you could push it so much further if you got out of the manga style a bit and made it your own. I don't mean to be an ass and if I hurt your feelings I apologize, just my thoughts on it.

[Konstruktion]

I felt kind of inspired today, and drew something that is quite like those creatures: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/29801373/

EDIT: I hope Snogger don't mind me posting that link, if you do, I'll remove it right away.

[Stormdar]

Ok I'm not really up on the mythos behind this kind of creature, but I find the lack of breasts disturbing.

~S

[waronmars]

Snogger: That is one transsexual looking monster.

I can't quite decide if i'm looking at some fetish nudity or not...

[Pixeldragoon]

No offense, but how can ANYTHING be 60% Female? That's like, the only masculine part is the jaw and the breasts, but yet the breasts still secrete milk often enough to feed the babies.
Nagas are okay. THey are just Land-mermaids though >

[Mirana]

I'm also having a hard time with the 60/40 gender percentage. Being a hermaphrodite/intersex or transgendered I get, but your character wants a male pronoun, looks male...but has babies? I'm not sure that's even plausible for the snake half. Is this founded in some sort of science, or just your own fantasy?

The twins looking completely different throws me too, but that's a whole 'nother scientific discussion.

I do like the drawing and coloring (in both pieces, though I'm partial to the marker version for some reason) for the human half and kids. The kids are very cute, and I really like the way you handled the eyes and hair. The snake half looks really lumpy though and the background looks flat and crowds the space of the piece. I think some work on volume might help in the future.

[Snogger]

Originally Posted by Mirana

I'm also having a hard time with the 60/40 gender percentage. Being a hermaphrodite/intersex or transgendered I get, but your character wants a male pronoun, looks male...but has babies? I'm not sure that's even plausible for the snake half. Is this founded in some sort of science, or just your own fantasy?

The twins looking completely different throws me too, but that's a whole 'nother scientific discussion.

I do like the drawing and coloring (in both pieces, though I'm partial to the marker version for some reason) for the human half and kids. The kids are very cute, and I really like the way you handled the eyes and hair. The snake half looks really lumpy though and the background looks flat and crowds the space of the piece. I think some work on volume might help in the future.

i really tried at this picture, why are you people so picky?!! im not being ignorant here, but it seems that im doing everything wrong all the time! and you dont know this character! he has a big profile on me and he means alot to me so dont question him. this isnt just to you, mirana, but everyone who is complaining. i like drawing manga, get over it! and the snake part does NOT LOOK LUMPY!!!

[theincredibleandy]

Snogger, please don't take the crits personally. Some people will hate on manga, but most people here are not complaining, they're genuinely trying to help. I came from an art school where we were taught not to be attached to our work at all (the teacher would hold my work in front in front of the entire class and tell them that my piece SUCKED. One teacher actually laughed at my piece because it was so bad). For four years we were told that nothing we did was perfect, nor will it ever be. I think sometimes we forget that not everyone feels that way. Don't let some people's words on a forum stress you out, and don't let a few people scare you away.

Having said that, I'd suggest trying to take all of the criticism as suggestions. Just try to see where people are coming from, don't let it get to you too much, and if you think it can help you, use it.

One of my friends does work kinda like yours: www.neondragonart.com I dunno, maybe you'll like it.

I wouldn't say to give up your style or anything, but I think it's good to let yourself be influenced by as many things as possible. I think that's how people like Hyung Tae Kim, Terada, and Alien1452 developed their own styles. They're still manga, but they're unique. I guess that's what I'd stress: keep exploring and looking at all sorts of art, and even if you stay with the work you do now, the exploring will help your art.

My take on the piece:

the hermaphrodite issue is something that some people won't relate to (for example, I've never met one before), so you'll have to accept that. All of the story you mentioned explains everything, I'm sure, but for someone who sees the piece without all of that to help them along, I can see where the male/female coments and twins comments came from. It's also judging from a more realism and less manga standpoint (from a realism standpoint, all of the new male final fantasy characters look 40% female). There's plenty of stuff I would've done differently, but I'm a different person.

Ya know, I posted some work on Deviantart before (my sister made me), and I didn't like how no one wanted to help me be a better artist, they just wanted to pat me on the back. Here, people completely tear my work apart, I learn so much, and I love it. Maybe you'll decide that the critiques are too much, but I really hope you don't. What's the use in doing art if you don't share it with people?

Oh, and I'm sorry to say this, but I think she's lumpy too. Just me though.

[timpaatkins]

If you want asspats show it to your friends and parents. If you want to improve show it here. No one is complaining, they are giving you invaluable tips on how to become a better artist.
A good recommendation is to post first in the Critque section before FF, then youll get all the advice you need to take it to the next level.
I myself have a hard time relating to this kind of art so I cant give you any advice, though I agree to what has already been said. IE Nice rendering, though a bit flat in places. The way the tail curls aroung the tree looks flat too, in fact the whole left side behind the tree is difficult to read, as it doesnt follow the landscape topology that is demonstraded in the clearing to the right.

These are all non-hostile observations.

Keep em coming!
Cheers Tim

[ruzkin]

The simple fact is, Snogger, that this is not Deviantart. Take a look through other threads here - you will see artists posting up art that is far, far more accomplished than yours, but they STILL GET CRITICISM. That's because having an attitude that your work is perfect is fatal. No piece is beyond improving, least of all the two pics you have posted here.

This is a board for people who want to be professionals, who want to improve constantly. You will see people post professional concept work for games and films on here, and we still find problems with it. Until you are consistently putting out work like this :http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=61557
then we will find issue with it.

It's not because we're cruel. It's because we want you to be a better artist.

Hang around Deviantart, and people will tell you anything you want, because for the most part it is a community of amateurs and enthusiasts. This is a pro community, and we welcome EVERYONE, as long as they come with an attitude open to criticism and learning.

Oh, and we will not "get over" you liking to draw manga. Manga is a disease in many ways, because people think that they can become a great manga artist without a grounding in life drawing and such beforehand. This is not true. There are a few FANTASTIC manga artists who post here, and you can see in all of their work that they have done hundreds of hours of studies on realistic anatomy, lighting and colour, composition. Only then have they settled into their chosen style.

You have not done this, it is quite obvious. Your work is derivative manga. Outside your circle of DA friends, there is nothing to distinguish it from anyone elses derivative manga.



Now, you have a choice. You can either storm off these forums and sulk, never to return because we didn't shower you with asspats and calls of "kawaii!" Or, you can make a decision now to become a better artist, suck up the criticism we give you and LEARN FROM IT. Start putting pictures in the Critique Centre, let people rip your work apart, and try again. Take every piece of advice you get as golden.

We're not picking on your art. Noone is immune here. The only thing we don't tolerate is an attitude that says "it's my style! Don't criticize my characters!" Because with that attitude, you are never going to learn, and you are never going to be a professional artist.

if you think I'm being a hypocrite, go check out my sketchbook thread, or my own deviantart - ruzkin.deviantart.com. Pick out every single flaw you find in my work. Be harsh. I'll love you for it, because you will have helped me grow. Now, you need to adopt the same attitude, or your art career may as well already be over.

Your choice.




EDIT - To clarify, this is what you risk becoming.
http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?p=621018
Don't do the same thing. Admit that no piece of art is perfect. Accept that we don't say these things to bring you down, but rather to lift you up. Strive to be a better artist.

[Xpose]

Ruzkin is right! We don't want to see anyone fail, if we did we would tell you that this is perfect. I'm working on a Naga to try get your thread back on track and I hope more people do the same.

[timpaatkins]

Hey Ruskin that link was the funniest reads I had in a long time, thanks!

[redehlert]

Originally Posted by ruzkin

Oh, and we will not "get over" you liking to draw manga. Manga is a disease in many ways, because people think that they can become a great manga artist without a grounding in life drawing and such beforehand.

lol! this was my argument back in college with fellow students claiming to be abstract artists and my retort was, "so you're saying you don't know how to draw realistically, so you do abstract? come on, picasso did insane realism before he started to distort and abstract his visions, not the other way around." btw, they didn't appreciate my comment. sigh...

just thought i'd share.

cheers!
d

[ruzkin]

Heh, totally true. I've never really liked Picasso's abstract art, but his life drawing studies before he took the abstract route were INCREDIBLE.

Masamune Shirow has studied life drawing and anatomy. So has Hyung Tae-Kim, so has Alien. These are all incredible manga artists. They learnt the fundamentals of real art, and then they worked backwards to find their preferred style, and it shows.

[Snogger]

but your all making it out taht im really crap D: and im not really crap!and i do think my manga style is recognisible, so do many others

[cass83]

Originally Posted by Snogger

but your all making it out taht im really crap D: and im not really crap!and i do think my manga style is recognisible, so do many others

Anime sucks, so does manga and so does your attitude. People are trying tp help and you are trying to justify "your" japanese anime.

Oh yeah, don't take this the wrong way but even for anime this is bad:eyes, babies, tail,breasts?etc,rendering,line quality, lighting,etc.

One more thing...can we create nanga killers, like beasts or warriors that slaughter them?

[redehlert]

amen, ruzkin....

[Gabe McCoy]

That's not it, really. Every artist has a point on what they can improve on, so they want you to become a better artist, so they say what you can do to improve.
They're not saying you are crap, they are trying to help you, that's what this forum is all about. I recognised your art instantly (I'm from Y!), that is true, and I'm not saying it is crap. But every artist can improve on something. You, the best guys here, anyone. It's all just to help you become a better artist, and you don't have to lose your style at all.
This is just how the artists are treated here, by giving advice and help them become better. Take the advice, and use it. It works the same way on every other place where you post art right? It's just that people dont praise that easily as SA, DA and such.
Don't take it so negatively sweety. We're not here to make fun of you or say any flames about your art.

[Number_6]

Originally Posted by cass83

Anime sucks, so does manga and so does your attitude. People are trying tp help and you are trying to justify "your" japanese anime.

That's not really called for.

We're not making it out that you're crap. But no matter how good you are, there's always someone better. This forum is to help people become like that person. Your Nagas are better than I could do at this point in time, but I still post here... specifically for the purpose of having my pictures torn apart and handed back to me so I know what to do next time.

[Vague]

YES!

i love it when these threads spring up... always sooo funny.

somebody who isnt that skilled and thinks they are gets torn apart and is pissed rather then sucking it up and getting better.

Snogger, just go back to deviant art. This obviously is not the place for you.


You can stay if you want, but just know that you have to take the crits and
learn.

[Pixeldragoon]

Can we stop flaming here please? I mean, ragging on the tranny naga is one thing, and telling what he has to improve on is one thing, but let's not diss him so hard, despite the fact he gives a conceited image. As if we all haven't done THAT at one point, no? WHERE MY NAGA HUH??? BRING IT AWN.



YOU GOT TIME TO FLAME? YOU GOT TIME TO KILL? YOU GOT TIME TO DRAW.

[Barts]

Drop the attitude and be open minded
or else ill set my robot monkeys on ya!

[Ilaekae]

Pixel's got the right idea...

Some of you guys are giving good advice and explanations in spite of confusion on the receiving end...

The rest of you...how about we prove our point? Show the new kid how we do a naga. ...ahem...







...hello?...












...the silence is fuckin' deafening...must have fucked up the intercom again...

BONK! BONK! RATTLE!

[head in the clouds]

hi, i'm also new here and i have been watching Snogger for a bit on DA. I agree with all the comments that arn't complete flames and are trying to make sense of this to Snogger. Anyway, I juuust wanted to mention that Snogger is a girl cause a number of you have been calling her a he.
also, not to to contradict her or anything like that but after seeing this thread, i'm goin' to be spending my online time right here on this site, i've been looking for a place like this for ages.

[Mirana]

Originally Posted by Snogger

i really tried at this picture, why are you people so picky?!! im not being ignorant here, but it seems that im doing everything wrong all the time! and you dont know this character! he has a big profile on me and he means alot to me so dont question him. this isnt just to you, mirana, but everyone who is complaining. i like drawing manga, get over it! and the snake part does NOT LOOK LUMPY!!!

but your all making it out taht im really crap D: and im not really crap!and i do think my manga style is recognisible, so do many others

Honey, you need to chill the fuck out. A critique is not personal or a complaint--don't take it that way.

I was asking a serious question about how you came up with the 60/40 gender thing. "He has a big profile on me and he means alot to me so dont question him" makes you look like a moron. If you had a well-thought out reason, it would make the character more believable and interesting. If it was just something you came up with, that's less exciting, but Naga's aren't real anyway so it's nothing to freak about.

I've personally drawn in a manga style (among others) for years. I didn't say anything about the style it was drawn in and don't feel that it has much to do with the validity of the piece itself. What others say about your ability with anatomy is still a point to consider, though.

Also, I'm sorry you disagree with the lumpiness of the snake tail. Simply declaring that it's not does not change my opinion (or anyone else's). Try to look at it objectively so that next time you can do right by your character.

Why the hell are you freaking anyway? I did compliment the work too, you know. If you can't take a critique, you'll be smart to not show the work anywhere but your circle of friends.