Lets say for a moment that this character has the strength to swing a massive log and still hold on to it. Im trying to capture the dynamics of that action. Also he is meant to be hitting something or someone with it. This is the follow through pose after hes swung it through. Ive also posted this in my sketchbook but I wanted to put it here too for more coverage. If you can help me really nail the pose I would really appreciate it. Maybe Ive already done it but maybe there is something off that I am not thinking of.
Last edited by Sunny; April 1st, 2011 at 06:33 AM.
Thanks to you too Venger. I searched for a lot of references and baseball was one of the first I thought of. There are two problems with it though. He isnt swinging it the same so the stance isnt the same. I didnt want him doing a baseball swing. This is much more animalistic than that. The next problem is the size of the pillar doesnt compare to that of a baseball bat. The closest I found was shotput throwers and scottland game log tossers. But even these arent 100%
Well I didn't mean do an exact baseball pose.
Even if you act it out, with both feet planted on the floor the front (edit) leg must bend inwards to allow the hips to move to let you swing - thats what I'm getting at.
Last edited by Venger; March 28th, 2011 at 09:48 PM.
hmmm... my art teacher says if your not sure about a pose take a picture of yourself doing it for reference or ask someone to act it out and take a picture of them doing the pose...i dunno....
You working hard or hardly working?
For swinging such a huge object, his feet don't look firm on the ground enough imo.
Its a chaotic moment. Hes hitting a bunch of small people because he is in fact a huge giant. Weight wise I want to keep it similar to what a human can relate to naturally. So I figure he has his feet planted, swings this giant pillar while yelling, the weight of the pillar does take him off his feet a bit. I definitely want the chaotic feeling so if it feels like he isnt firmly on the ground then thats go. I kind want some fury in this. So hes swung it, now hes holding on. He will resettle then swing again, maybe even throw it at them.
Thanks for the thoughts. You guys raise good points and ideas!
Just a little opinion, I'll let the rest talk about the pose coz I'm still studying that myself.
Its just that his expression, its bothering me, it might just be personal preference, what if he clenches his teeth, with an expression that is more of a snarl? It would show more struggle, he looks kinda gently surprised now.
Maybe I'm just looking at too much Glen Fabry. xD cheers though, it looks great.
The thing that's actually been bugging me from the beginning of the angle of the whole piece. Because you've cropped it so close you can't see the top of the log he's swinging, making it look to me like he is actually dangling from something more than swinging something. I think that is exacertabted by that you can't see his feet either. Without seeing one of those (and without anything else to determine his action) his pose is a bit vague. However if you don't want to change the cropping just rotating him 30 degrees clockwise might do the trick.
Also from an anatomy standpoint his tricep is merging almost completely with his brachioradialis and extensor carpi radialis muscle on his arm. They're two separate muscles even though they kind of flow together.
Hope this helps!
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I think you could work his expression into one that has a little more anger, honestly. Right now he looks more worried about the guy he smacked with the log . The huge log. Really exaggerate the arc of the eyebrows and curl his nose up a bit more, possibly.
The log is also the most vertical thing in the composition, and it seems kind of static to me as a result. I like what the angles are doing with the rest of his body, but what would it look like if you tilted the log/pillar 15 degrees to the right? I'm seriously asking a question here, it could be ALL WRONG .
I've heard you say that you come from a similar over-rendering background as myself, and I must say that I really like how you're painting here. I know it's not that important to the composition, but I really like the leg on the left (our left). That's just sexy- quick and full of form.
But I must say that I'm having a hard time with the upper and lower bodies (mainly the torso, and then where his implied crotch is). The torso doesn't seem to imply the twist it would take to get his crotch there, if that makes any sense. I at least hinting at that twist with what exposed anatomy we have could really help with the whole "swinging dramatically" aspect of this painting.
Last edited by Quigleyer; March 29th, 2011 at 02:47 AM.
wow i sure am getting a lot of replies to this thread hehe. Here are my newest updates.
Thanks so much for all the help You guys and gals are coming up with a lot of great stuff for me to think on and look at. Really does help so much. CA is such a good resource isnt it.
@AestheticMachine - haha ya no worries. thats one of those things that is in my mind but doesnt really come into form till later. My newest rendering here does have small guys in with it now. Thanks for taking the time to comment!
@M.O.S.H - Ya pose isnt the best for me too but I think im getting better at wrapping my mind around it. The clinching the teeth thing I had here and there. I keep trying it and taking it away. I like the idea that he is yelling and grinding teeth like that keeps seeming too cliche to try again.
@Dread_Reaper - Hopefully the new image will help the post and angel make more sense. Its meant to be human eye level looking up toward the sky a bit because this giant is 15 feet tall or so. I tried different angles of the pillar initially when sketching but this one just seemed to make the most sense to me considering its weight and size.
The arms muscles really do need to be looked at. I tend to flake out on that stuff and really havent been able to memorize the proper muslces and their range of motion. Thanks for the reference. Ill definitely be taking these under finer inspection.
@Quigleyer - hehe actually I did make him meaner this time around, before i read your comment even so we must have similar notions. I decided to make his eyes black, void of light and thus void of light. Plus his eyebrows.
The twist is something I will definitely look at more. The belt kinda makes it hard to see. I could change the angle of the abs more and probably should. Thanks for the comment on the leg, really had a frazetta type leg in mind the whole time. He was so good at making men and women have a natural sexiness to them.
Check the shape of his deltoid muscle. It's not right. Work out where the latissumus dorsi is in this pose, and how the three parts of the deltoid pull, also the relations between deltoid, supraspinatus, teres major and triceps.
Thanks arenhaus. Ya I really butchered it hehe. I found a good reference and it definitely seemed off. I hope this is at least a lot closer.
I like how you fixed the expression of the guy, and the men that u added. In fact I like the whole piece, but something about the cropping feels awkward.
Apart from that, you need to work a bit on the upper-lower body relation and your lighting. Keep it up
What bugs ME about your piece is how, when I first glanced at even your first version, it looked so like a big, strong dude swinging an enormous cylinder, as if you were going for a giant smashing humans. What a slap in the face to wannabes like myself. It really bothers me that I agonize over creating dynamic poses, and would really struggle with something as challenging as your column-wielding titan.
As far as the expression goes, I think there is something compelling about an immense creature showing a bit of desperation (as he appears to me...desperate, almost like a cornered animal) as he battles a swarm of...something to be added later.
Oh alright...I don't want to rate the behind-kissing smiley. There IS something a bit funky about the elbow.
@Heavens - Thanks for the comments Heavens. The cropping is something that I have to attempt to excuse. This illustration isnt for fun, although its a great one to do in that regard. Im doing this for a product label so the text, the name for the product, the images of the product, tend to weight in just as much as the illustration, if not more at times. So this whole piece tends to fall into the background more. Its meant to be awesome none the less. So in the end the cropping works because it adds to the immensity of the character. He's too big to see completely, sort of thing. We will see though. The cropping does get to me too. I really want to show more of the top but I will restrain myself until Im feeling like I need it, or want it more.
@Minelo - I know what you mean. Cropping at the knee is, unfortunately, a bad habbit of mine. I love to avoid the feet. The problem is I tend to know when to use this also. I dont mind putting in feet but I naturally avoid it. If you read the comment before this youll understand why I made that conscious choice.
@DPFX - haha somehow when I read "What bugs ME about your piece..." I knew compliments were to follow The key really is to get a good sense of what you are going for. I think as young artists we try to draw our imagination which doesnt ever seem to work. As far as I know, or at least what Ive come to know, a maturing artist works more from feeling. Technical skill at that point isnt as prominant when the goal is to capture a sensation. But that isnt to say technical skill isnt a huge part. For me this project has posed a challenge in terms of getting a sense of the size. I did some early sketches to "find" the right angle. By my third sketch I had what you see now. I tried to imagine what it would look like to see "a giant colossis swinging a column". I imagined it would be very scary and so I knew I wanted him to be imposing and angry so that the scary feeling would come through. But the biggest part really is holding on to that impression that you want. Then as you work at it the decisions are more clear. You always weight your choices against what your aiming for then do the hard work if you have to in order to reach your goal. This is the hard part sometimes. Utilizing all you know to do the best you can do.
Dont worry so much about "trying" to create great poses. You should let go of any pressure you feel like putting on yourself about stuff like that. Its an unhealthy expectation we tend to put on ourselves and it actually slows us down. Instead, if you can let go, be open and aware. Then when you see a great pose you will think about it for a moment. Try to connect to it and understand it. After a while they start to make more sense. Im still growing at it myself, thats for sure. I tend to put myself in the minds of actors when I watch movies and tv shows which I think also helps.
Thats definitely what I was going for on the expression. Kinda Beowolf in a way.
are you planning to extend the canvas further down? Coz im seeing the erm i dunno what you call it, those things at the top of em helms. Their looking kinda comical. Maybe its just me, but i kinda laughed a bit at it (in a good way though, its kinda cute) Maybe that is your intention. I dunno. But yeah, just wanted to point it out.
Wanting to make it like a bunch of sharks at his heels? Haha, but the rest is working. Maybe move him a bit to the right too like Minelo said. He looks symmetrically divided into one section of the canvas. unless you're planning to block in an element there of course.
@Minelo -Ok I see what you mean. Ill consider that then. But Im moving on to color first.
@M.O.S.H - Nope, moving the canvas down wasnt in the plan at least. But you never know. I feel like Im at a good place to start moving on to color. Even if there are changes that will come later sometimes I feel like making all the choices early on weakens it somehow. It does look kinda comical but I kinda like that. This will be a product label so it doesnt need to be completely dramatic. You kinda want to root for the big guy even though you are from the viewpoint of a small guy. I think this bowling pin kind of humour helps sell that. Ya there will be elements to the right and possibly on the bottom. We will see what happens though.
dude this looks bad ass, great work so far! cant wait to see the finished product... but what is this for exactly if you don't mid me asking
You working hard or hardly working?
Thanks Dante, lots of errors on that one too Im sure. But hey, its a learning process
Ok so I have started to add some colour. Im going for greens and blues and instead of going really bright at first I decided to go for a creepy dusk setting. Ill see how that goes for a little while. I tend to change stuff as I go though. First impressions would be helpful.
The few things that are bothering me with this piece are
1. I don't know what he is looking at. Just kind of up in the air.
2. There is no reference to columns in the environment so it feels a bit out of place to me.
3. I agree with the bad cropping of the knee, but I would say drop the edge of the frame down a bit so we can see some more of the soldiers. I think that would ground the piece more, give more depth since we will have stronger foreground elements and exaggerate the height of the giant more because he will take up even that much more of the frame and show him towering over the soldiers (right now they can get mistaken for shrubbery)
great movement though.
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Thanks BaiFan I think you raised some very good points indeed. I am thinking of reconsidering the angle of head head entirely. which I think means repainting it. Im wondering how it might look if his head a little straight forward. It seems like it would be a little more natural but the downside is that it would be less intense i think.
I had planned for a while to put in some buildings to show some pillars but thats something that tends to come later for me. I like to know where they fit in best. I put some in now though.
I dont really want to crop the image at this point but I felt like his knee could come up as well as the soldiers. So this does work better for me. Here is the newest.
There are still lots of placeholders. Just trying some things out. Like the soldier on the far left and right in the foreground. Not sure how well they work. So keep in mind its still WIP.
here is a new version. Ive decided to change direction after getting feedback from my client. I kinda planned to go this route eventually but sometimes I want to try new things. I painted it before in a nice green tone but because this will be selling something it needs to be more attractive. So Ive headed for my feel good colors and vibe. Ive done some more work on a lot of the warriors in the scene and changed the head altogether on the main guy. You might also be able to tell that I cropped the image up which a lot of you were requesting I do. I appreciate all the help so far! This is still a WIP. I plan to finish up the other characters, at least to an acceptable degree. I plan to add more green into it as well as put in a large building in the background.
Please give me feedback on this newest version!