Originally Posted by Grim Reaper
No reason to hate you.. and you need to stop thinking that way ...
You just called out the truth. Who am i to preach when I dont do anything at all. Its my own consequence if i dont follow my own advice.
So yeah.. i let it go... -_-;; I hate making mistakes.. but whatver.. i dont understand..this.. wasnt sure how far i can go with this one..actualy i do know what i want to add.. but not sure how to put it in.
ah well here is the first part of it.
I wanted it to be a girl sitting down waiting for the bus stop. in the back ground there a couple of shops.. as well as you see cars comming down the path... -_-;;;
well looks like today was a good day for me.. did two things.. just to get out of my system before going to bed..feel free to critique
nice .. how can such a simple drawing look so sad. Beautifully expressive.
To see the world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wildflower, hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour.
My brother who has always been great artist and a mentor to me told me once that when making comments about a piece of art you should always mention at least one good thing and one bad thing about it, as even the greatest pieces of art have their downsides. Also- the worst ones have their good points.
A lot of people around here totally butter you up I've noticed...
Well, here we go:
Colours on that picture of the face are good, cold tones, not too bright(which is often my mistake). Anatomically I'd have to say, correct. Good proportions.
Liveless, merely a 5 mins sketch, a base for a picture but who said you have to build your drawings around that anatomically correct skeleton?There is a million ways to do it and you should always choose the one you feel most comfortable with. And I can see you tied yourself with fear, that pointless obsession to do it right, as the book says. It doesn't matter what the bloody book says!!! This is art. Art is freedom. Freedom gives inspiration. You can criticise me for creepiness on all my pictures, fair comment, but do you really think that a girl on the bus stop and people doing shopping in the background will make people's jaws drop? Especially at that angle you started doing it, it seems quite dull to me... It's the idea that matters, it's what you give to the viewer.
About that correctness- does it really matter that much if the character's arm is a little too short or too long? Does it really matter if the lighting is perfect or the shading is as it should be? There is such thing as licentia poetica, the artist's own way of describing reality. I believe it can all anatomically be wrong but as long as it's interesting there is a good piece of art in front of you.
Let's create worlds within the world. Even reflection of the world in the drop of water is different, changed... Make your art your own way of perceiving reality, not a battle with that stupid book of yours to which by the way you really put me off...
Ok.Cheerio. Now go back to work and rock my socks off with the next post
Oh and visit my sb sometimes and kick my ass too:
I think Grim Reaper's got some good advice. It is good to learn fundamentals and the correct anatomy, rules of perspective, et cetera. But also remember, the whole point of learning all of the "rules" of drawing is so you can break them in the best way possible.
So yeah, learn all the academic stuff, but don't be afraid to do your own thing.
As a side note, I find that I just really like this image here.
Sure, it's not perfect, but I have to say that look on her face is just great. That look on it's own conveys so much of how she feels, and the feel of the image as a whole frankly.
You say it's gonna be a WIP, which is great. It's good to challenge yourself, and don't worry about screwing it up. Worst case scenario is that you learn from any mistakes you might make. But that's okay because the point is to learn, is it not?
-My work can be found at my local directory thread.
Hi there White Rose! It's great to see such enthusiasm with drawing! I remember studying anatomy and different techniques like CRAZY and I still find it -very- difficult to pull something out of my head. I highly recommend you read about artist thinking processes, so you can understand the importance of reference material when creating something new. All these studies are very good and very important for drawing things from your imagination only, but remember the greatest artworks usually use a reference. I'd have to say most artists I know who don't use references are very much used to proportioning and positioning bodies from their minds and as such have a very good understanding of the human body - which the learned from BOTH anatomy books studies and applying that knowledge when they did, for example, a life drawing or a drawing from photography.
There are also many ways to skin a cat, so to speak - you can approach drawing in a number of ways. Some people prefer to do it line-by-line, in fact my art teacher taught me to draw everything with a rough guideline and then to compare each line against the last lines I drew, but this can be limiting. The more detailed your guide is, and the more accurate, the less you will have to worry about each line being accurate. Does that make sense?
I think that Grim Reaper is on the right track but what really needs to be said is that (I think) you are too timid. If you want to learn something really fast, then do quickfire studies (drawing something in under five minutes), gestural studies, straight up tonal studies, things that will break down the barriers of your own self confidence and teach you that yes you can make a pretty picture of a bowl of flowers in under 5 minutes!
Also, undergo a serious art project. Try to make a portrait as best as you can, and push the materials. Find out what happens if you use certain materials in different ways. For example, try to draw/paint a watermelon (or something as simple) in 10 different approaches to see the results. A serious art project will teach you a lot more because you will have a sense of discovery and will discover things by complete accident as you hone the skill into something brand new.
I know my SB doesn't really back up a lot of my claims but this is always the mindset I have and I think it is really helping me to realise my goals and other creative ideas I've saved for when I get a handle on my materials a bit more.
Hope that helps and keep your head up high!
I hate work especially with hours from 9 am - 6pm of on going stress and chaos... i havent drawn anything really in 3 weeks.. hell i couldnt with work at all. I let myself down big time with incompletion of the gods vs gods.. even though i missed it.. im gonna work on it till i have something to show..
damn perspective grids.. -_-;;
oh well back to the drawing board. I have a couple of peices i need to get back on.
but since i needed to grease my wheels again. (figuratively speaking)
I drew this...oh well..
Another work in progress...
Hey White Rose! Glad to see you're still at it.
No specific crits, I think the best thing you can do at this stage is just keep drawing often. I do think that you still have a lingering fear of drawing. this isn't your fault, don't get me wrong, because as a society we are taught to be afraid of failure. But, like I was saying before, failure is the best way to learn. You'll find that you have a lot of time to draw, it's just not in large chunks. But I doubt you don't have, say, 10-15 minutes a day to do some gesture.
Oh, and by the way, I was thinking of adding a few people to the ProtoSSG, considering Kitsu and Afgal appear to be MIA. Any candidates?
Keep up the hard work!
Hey Joe... thank you for posting... Yeah feel free to add more members.. i wonder what happened to Kitsu and Afgal.. I guess life got in its way or something like that... I hope everything is okay for them
But guess what... ^_^ I finally did an sp.. took about a good hour and a half.. i feel proud...
it looks like me.. i even got the happy lines on my face.. my glasses are crooked..and i defintly need to pluck my eyebrows..
i need to work on my shading.. rubbing with a pencil isnt good enough.. the funny thing was when i picked up the mirror.. i got a bit dizzy,..cause there were so much to look at it...
I think you... should really work..on your hands... It seems like...you draw the little finger... as a longest one.... and ... after all this...anatomy studies... I expected a bit.... more
Also...all I see here..is very few lines... this is basics to me... there is no shading...
Long way ahead of you... darling
Hi WR, long time no see.
I really understand what you are going through with the work thing. I too have try to find strength to draw after 8 hours of steel factory every day, and its not easy.
I just try to carry a sketch pad with me at work, if its possible for you, I strongly suggest that.
Hope you still can find time to create art, I really like your work.
did a little warm up drawing..made mistakes.. gonna work on this one a bit more..
Last edited by White Rose; March 22nd, 2007 at 10:26 PM.
The figure's allright. Still- the hand, study hands. If you're aiming for realism this hand is out of this world...It's from the world where people's hands are pancakes... I think you should work on that.
Looks like you are coming along well. Your anatomy is still off in proportion and placement. Keep working at your references and maybe pick up a loomis book or two to "map out" the body as you are working on it. But most of all...just keep on drawing!!
Working on my presecpective. Here is the first layout. Going to work on it some more. But first thing first..look for some reference pictures on certain items.. and get the prespective thing corrected.
I've wiped the dust off the bridgmans anatomy of hands..
and started studying from that. Also i bought a reference book of models.. studied from that a bit.. since i dont get a chance to go to life drawing class that often...
didnt turn out so well
warming up again....
warming up again...
Hmmm.... She reminds me of Lisa Simpson a bit.
How about if you tried getting the shape of the character right by shading it a bit?
Also I think head is a bit too big... unless she's a child. Or Lisa Simpson.
Hey White rose, just thought i could drop you some lines =)
First some general stuff that I see just by scrolling through the book.
You should draw more! A lot more, skip that time you spend on irc and draw instead!
You have posted 12 pages since january , which is way to less! And to be honest, you haven't
improved ultra-uber-much either, which you could if you tried to focus and draw more!
I start back on page 4 just to have something to do =) afterall, I just finished my moleskine book =) !
September 12th, post 181.
The gestures are pretty... un defined, even to be gestures. They also look very rushed, especially
the first page , wich is very rough.
The second page is better.. But you should work on getting the rythm in there! I suggest getting bridgman
or villpu's book for this, theres a lot about rythm , and gesture for that matter.
Again, your gestures looks pretty rushed.. and since you don't seem to draw very much.. At least
try to slow down while your at it! Otherwise, I think it might be really hard for you to get something
out of it. Try to look at the human in motion.. any videos could help you really, Martial art sports, running
anything where you could copy or learn the gestures from.. and with those books, bridgman or villpu
you hopefully learn some tricks on how to easier get it down from you head later!
I think that drawing the gestures head that big, will damage your "feeling" of how the head
should look like when you draw it on a more advanced figure.. Most of your figures, and those gestures
have a way to big head, and i measure about 5-6 heads sometimes on those.. On a normal
figure , its supposed to be around 7½ - 8 . Study anatomy, its really important to make a believe able figure!
Heres some never before seen material that might help you..
also, the easy-to-remember one by Darktwin :
So.. basicly, some of your gestures reminds me more of deformed childrens then "adult" gestures.
Although I'm not sure where you are going with those.. but to judge by the size of the head, and the shape of
some, they are kids.
The last page has some more deformed lines.. but you seem to guess and scribble more then you observe and focus!
If you just could change that, your stuff would look a lot better!
Also, when doing gestures, block in the basic shapes, like rib cage, head, hip, leg form, etc even if the lines
are swoshy.. Bridgman and villpu comes to mind again haha.. really, try to get those books!
whatever its in PDF or the real once!
The gestures are still pretty deformed, and the lines, that make up those
legs makes no sense.. Even though lines are tiny, you make it look a little funny
with those tiny lines as legs you know.. BUilding up the basic shape would be good for you!
The heads are still very big, I think the gesture on the left side is most accurate though. Head-wise.
But still, its about 6-7 heads.. The good thing is that i can see some villpu form! But
you should still work on getting it more right, because your lines looks very lazy and rushed, like
if you wasn't paying any attention at all Telephone doodles. The second page looks better, at least some
fo the gestures does! The one up left has a good structure, and its a nice gesture, although the arms still
look a little lazy, and its just a scribbled line kinda. Try to think more of what you are going to do , before you
do it.. Thinking in two seconds would have saved me from writing those 3 rows The rest of the gestures on
this page looks like ants.. They are better formed, but they don't remind me of human gestures really.
The running one in the middle-down is good though! nice motion! Very simple though.. sloppy lines etc.
The third page looks kinda lazy, I'm not sure of what to say that i have already mentiond, because its the same thing
all over, the structure is a little off, the limbs look lazy, its just rushed lines! Sometimes you have gone
over them several times which make it look more and more like telephone doodles! Take your time!
Pay some attention to what you are doing! And again, do this kind of stuff like studies until you know
the structures! Not from your mind.. I think You will only gain a lot of habits if you do, that you will have
problems with laters!
Those gestures are A LOT better! Still a little sloppy, but there is some basic shape in there, like rib cage and hip!
You should still pay more attention to the lenght off stuff, the proportions come of bad sometimes!
Head is a also a little better! I can see some 8-heads! quite a lot 6-7 heads. Nice work though!
Something that I think might improve the dynamicness in those are the stuff that we is the most natural thing when
we walk, and that is to not put the left arm, and the left leg in a motion pointing at the same angle!
So when the left leg is in front of you, the left arm should be "behind" you! It will make the whole thing
look a lot more natural!
As for those small gestures.. I think you should skip them, they just look rushed, I think you would learn
more by spending your time at two-three big once , where you take your time! , instead of making 15 small, rushed once.
Its pretty good, a lot better then your gestures haha, I think it looks pretty stiff though.. I would suggest to not use
so many horisontal lines to make it look like a lot of boxes you know. But instead make the lines flow!
The head is pretty misplaced, and the arms looks tiny and the anatomy doesn't look very accurate.
May I ask what the left hand is doing ? and why is the legs placed like that ?
The left leg seems very long, wich is easy to fix though.
I think the picture would make a lot more sense of you made the legs closer to eachother, putting both hands visible ,
drawing the actual hand and not only scrible something that might look like fingers! Wich reminds me of that you should
study hands ! ( I should.. Too =) ) I did a quick paint over.
play with the curves more, especially around the shoulders and the hip area! That is basicly what i did in the
paint over. Hope it makes sense.
What size are you drawing on ? A4 I suppose ? Why are you posting so small.. It makes it hard
to see anything really. Those gestures are really really stiff, not much action in them, and nothing going on.
Again try to not do the left leg and arm in front of the figure at the same time. and if you do, try to think
more before applying that, Why is he having both left leg and arm in front of him ? If it would be some
sort of taek wan do pose, that would make sense, now your figures are only standing there, and it doesn't make
much sense to me ^^ Work on that! Also, try to finish them.. The lines often ends up in nothing.
Second page is a lot better then the first page, there is something going on, and thats the whole point! Any one can
do stiff stick figures , that isn't the same as gestures =)
Really, look up some xma videos ( extreem martial art ) and try to catch some gestures from those. I think it would be
good practice.. and your gestures would come out a whole lot more dynamic!
Those bach hand spring/stand poses are really good.. reminds me some of loomis once! Good job!
Good planes, and boxes, a good excercise is to try to build em together like a huge group of city
shapes and stuff.. the hard thing is to make it look right in perspective!
Not much to crit on yours.. but add a perspective point on a horisont and draw the lines from
there to make sure it look accurate! like this. ( or similair. )
Also, maybe work on shaiding them.. i mean, put together the perspective studies with lighting studies
just great! Althought some of the angels doesn't look correct.. but it might just be me.
I'm a little dissapointed. Because those gestures are a step back.. I think you should work it up with
a good structure before trying to get dynamic with the figure.
the right gesture looks pretty rushed, and the head form doesn't look right to me. Really really spend some
time thinking of where you gonna put down the lines. Btw.. Aren't you using a pencil ? If so I suggest
gluing that eraser to your left hand ( or right if you are left handed and start ereasing those areas that you have
done something wrong to, or where there is to many scribble lines. Like the back area of that
gesture, those sketchy areas doesn't look so good to me .
The figure on the bottom is good though! the arm seems pretty long.. but i think its because you started
the line on the inner-side of the arm, a bit early..
Heads are really hard to draw from profile, so keep practicing doing those!
The left female is pretty good.. but its the same errors as in the last female which i did a paintover on.
the head is misplaced.. the neck is to long, the head is also to big btw, the rib cage doesn't take
any shape but seem to just flow inside the body. Try to make the ribcage stand out some more because
those marks, or the shape that the ribcage makes is what makes a female standing out as fat, skinny, etc etc depending
on how you make them.
The right figure need a lot of work.. and i see you have wrote that you don't understand the area..
And I think that it is because your lack of knowledge behind structure and basic anatomy!
Thats GREAT! why didn't you finished it ? I know which this is supposed to be a copy
of , even though its some errors, i still belive its awesome that you did a master study
or at least tried to. I think you lack patience though.. I really suggest trying to sit
down and finish something, even if it take you 2 -3 hours only, make sure to finish it!
And as you get better at it, try to expand the working time more and more!
More master studies please! Make sure to take your time and observer really carefully!
Putting values wrong , or shapes will change the whole facial to something that doesn't
look a lot like the orignal. Also.. A White background ,can give you a whole different
impression compared to the same drawing with dark background!
As you mention yourself, try to finish the arms, draw the hands! Study hands, work on anatomy
your stuff consist to 99% of characters.. why not making it easy for you by studying anatomy?
You see, it would help you a lot. A lot of those crits would fall off directly!
The neck is to long, and the head is to big . Try think of those measurement rules, 4 heads
down the the crotch!now it look like you have three only!
On the girl portrait. Don't outline the lips that heavy.. same with the eyes! Also
the left eye seems to far up, It makes the portrait look pretty weird.
Spend more time on those! You should really take your time and observe from the loomis book!
Don't draw to get it done.. Draw because you enjoy it! The head shape in those are really
good.. I suggest doing a lot more of those ! also try to get the basic shape of the neck
The nec is pretty tiny in those.. But its nice to see you studying loomis ! The torso area seems so pretty
small compared to the big head.. so by decreasing the size of the head, it will look a lot better!
Do not rush the anatomy of the arm.. When you are doing those studies try to instead see the formula, or build
it up in blocks.. The guy on the very right seems pretty off because of that you rush the anatomy instead of thinking
and applying what you've learnt by studying loomis etc.
I'm not sure what to say that i haven't already mentioned. The Hip area of those seems pretty deformed.
The structure is all off in the right one.. and looks weird in the middle one.. Especially the shoulder/arm area.
The left one looks pretty good, but the head is way to big!
Btw.. Post more! You are only posting on sketch every time.. and you aren't even posting daily ^^
Post 237 is looking nice! the neck is still pretty long, and the head is to big.. The arm have a better
shape then before though.. and both arms are in front of her! Take your time when you draw hands though.. They
are really trick Also, try to push something further then just to sketch!
The can in the background could need some work.it doesn't make any sense in the perspectice!
The girl looks pretty deformed.. The hip area and the torso is to small.. The anatomi isn't
that good to be honest. What is she looking at ?
The legs under-legs are quite long.. The only thing that looks good is the face and the left foot! nice work on those.
Although, the face could need some work, it look exactly like all you other faces.
expression wise that is. The hand looks rushed and its because i can only see 5 lines. It looks
more like a fork to me then a hand.
Wow man.. is it a good day if you did two things ? You gotta get working haha
it has a lot better pose then your other stuff. The anatomy is actually better also.
The legs seems pretty weird to me.. but I can't seem uch. The hip area is a little small, but that could easly be fixed
and the face reminds of some french guy with mustache sorry! The head is also to big!
The hand is a lot better then last time though, good job!
NICE! The line work is great.. the colors on the chin is doing the wrong thing though.. I know
you wanted to add this pink "blushed" tone to it.. but it doesn't work since the pink
is more desaturated..
The line work have good anatomy around the shoulder area.. the neck is pretty thin and the head a big
to far up though. Now shade it please!
The line work is pretty lifeless so is the expression of the face. I don't know what to say
really.. It looks very rushed, especially with those quick lines that only flat it out.
The left arm is pretty tiny, and what is the hand doing ? Good work on it though.. But as you mentioned it was WIP i suggest
that you should try to finish it man! You haven't finished one single thing so far.. at least not on page 4 or 5
The look of the face is different to the usually faces in your book, thats good!
She seems to be pretty short though.. Work out the structure and figure first!
nice portrait! It needs a lot of work and some tones to make it realistic, but
its nice so far.. Don't rush the lines though, its pretty sketchy! and those headphones
are flat, take your time!
If you did warmup I suppose you have something after the warm up right ? Show us! The warm up is
very scribble like sorry.. The proportions are off, and the head is very big.
Do you start with the head ? Try to start with the torso, and decide the heads size
out of the space between the nipple and neck insteead of starting with the head ( if thats what you do )
The hand look like a crashed fork sorry
Nice!! Keep working on it.. and keep putting characters in perspective enviroments!
I suggest getting a book on basic perspective stuff.. Or some of the gnomon
dvd's on enviroments.. You can't belive how good that was for me to have seen those
videos on perspective before i even started to draw haha.. Good stuff that is!
Keep working on it
YES!! Thats great great great! nice studies on those hands! nothing to crit, but please
do more, and post more of those!
The girl is also pretty good.. the neck is a little weird though, and to long, and the eyes
are very open.. it looks to exaggerated.. Try to add those pupils =)
The shoulder area is nice.. You seem to be best at that area.. still watch out for the deltoid
and the head is pretty big upon the long neck.
, Thats it haha.. The crits keept getting smaller as i didn't wanted to repeat myself over and over.
I hope you can learn something from it. Keep working, especially on anatomy and proportions!
edit* Btw, POST MORE ! DRAW MORE!
White Rose don't be discouraged, a lot of people in this thread are taking time to help you get on the right track, use it wisely and keep at it, you can do it!
Rose...just a quick suggestion for you. Try not to focus on the details to begin with.Try and see how fast you can capture the pose and with th fewest lines as possible. This exercise should helpwith making yourfigures not as stiff feeling. Also--try changing your medium to charcol or graphite. Use somethingunfamiliar to change things up. Good luck...and I have seen improvement since your first posts!!!
Dile : thank you for looking into my sb. I really dont have much to say. But I have alot of work to do.
Manuel_Calavera I wonder whats your reasoning for saying that. But I wont go there.
Rudeone Thank you, dont worry i wont. I'm not going to give up
silvestri99 thanks for the info.. its hard but i'll see what i can do.
Another picture.......used a bit of reference for the position of the body.
Hey White Rose! Sorry I haven't dropped by in a while!
There's definitely some improvement, but man, you're getting a lot of good crits. Sadly, I have nothing to say that hasn't been said ten times before, but I'll just repeat what I've said before.
Draw more - Have fun - Keep at it