Thanks for all the comments on the corsair/zero picture. I'm going to leave it alone for a bit (I'm sick of it right now) but I'll definitely take your critiques into consideration when I do go back and fix it up.
Rodrigo: I tried what you said about line thickness, it does seem to help (I forgot to scan the silly thing though).
Inkfish: Thanks, I'll try to put all that to good use when I get back to the picture.
Boogieman: Ahhh, now I see. Thanks!
I did a few quick sketches recently. They're not clean at all, just jotting down ideas, so they're rather messy. I'll try to do some cleaner stuff later.
A very happy hagfish and lamprey, chimera looking all creepy, me posing with my sister's sparring sword, and a robin that was kind enough to pose outside my window. I've noticed that I have a bad habit of shortening the upper arm, I'll have to watch out for that now.
More chimera body plans. He walks on two legs and all fours. Some odd wolves/coyotes/something. A few airplanes and a scribbled cyborg.
I misread the IDW for this week and thought it read "giant russian flying tank" instead of a tank that was dropped by an airplane. Anyways that sparked a whole series of crazy bombers with ramjets that would fly to their target at mach 4, slow down with moveable wings and bomb it into submission. I liked some of the designs in the middle, but I wanted something semi-realistic and those designs would have poor airflow into the ramjets.
So on the next page I stuck the ramjets in front to have access to less turbulent air and added some turbojets at the top. Ramjets can't start themselves so they need some sort of a booster to get up to speed at first. American designs usually have the turbojet inside the ramjet, but Russian stuff tends to be simpler so I stuck the turbojets on top. Makes them easier to repair. I've got to work with the wings though. I think it'll eventually be a canard setup.
It's rather odd but one way of knowing whether or not you have a good design is by how "good" the airplane looks. Unless if there are some major design requirements not related to flight, a bad looking plane will not perform well. Honest to goodness I had a whole class on this. Anyways when I'm drawing out a plane I usually pay attention only to the physics and more often than not it will come out looking decent.
hey, i was just wondering if they teach you any design principles that you can apply to your art, and how much you apply real-world application to your imaginative works.. do you mind talking about that kind of thing at all?It's rather odd but one way of knowing whether or not you have a good design is by how "good" the airplane looks. Unless if there are some major design requirements not related to flight, a bad looking plane will not perform well. Honest to goodness I had a whole class on this. Anyways when I'm drawing out a plane I usually pay attention only to the physics and more often than not it will come out looking decent.
Main Loop: Sure, I love applying engineering principles to art, it just seems to be something that isn't done as much as it should.
Anyways, I hope I don't get in trouble for posting without art, but I've only done it twice so here goes.
There's a lot of little rules to follow, the main thing concerns exactly what regime of airflow you'll be operating in. There's subsonic (below the speed of sound), supersonic (speed of sound to five times the speed of sound), and hypersonic (above five times the speed of sound).
Subsonic aircraft have round teardrop shapes to reduce drag, WWII fighters are great examples of this. Straight wings really don't cause any problems, and you can get away with odd protrustions without getting crazy drag from them. So you can have all sorts of fun with adding stuff to subsonic aircraft.
Supersonic aircraft operate with radically different air properties. Sound is the speed at which information is communicated through the air, when you start going faster than the speed of sound suddenly it can't move fast enough to get out of your way and piles up into shocks. Shocks tend to radiate out from a front protruberence (such as the nose) and form a cone around it. Behind this cone the air tends to move more slowly. So on a supersonic aircraft there normally is a sharp nose that takes the brunt of the shock. Smaller protrustions produce shocks too, so wing edges are sharp and swept back. Larger control surfaces are also important to maneuver above supersonic speeds. The reason I put the engines in the front was to give them access to free air. Behind the nose they would be subject to lots of shock wave interference. You can place the engine inlets behind the nose, but this particular jet depends solely on speed for protection and it would need all the advantages it could be given. Similar to the SR-71 Blackbird it has cones in the engine inlet to precisely regulate the shock waves (they can move in and out!). Most jets need subsonic flow within the engine to work properly. Diamond edges and cones are common on supersonic aircraft.
Hypersonic is just crazy. Forget that you are flying in the air, start designing a submarine that can swim through magma. That's what I know of hypersonic design in a nutshell. The shuttle and some NASA test missles offer a good idea of what is needed for hypersonic flight. Saucers and blunt edges.
Stability is also important. A few rules of thumb for getting a plane to at least look like it can fly is to put the center of mass slightly ahead of the area where lift is centered. Just make sure that most of the wing area is behind the main mass of the plane. The tail will take care of the tipping.
You can also add wing sweep and dihedral, even subsonic planes will have swept back wings because it improves stability. Wings also tend to be swept up. Of course, fighters are meant to be as maneuverable as possible so they will often have wings drooping down a bit. Some new designs are even using swept forward wings, previously we didn't have the materials that could withstand the forces involved and the wings would shear off (not good!).
Hmmm, lessee, more general stuff...
Radar stealth requires faceted edges so they don't scatter radar beams. No matter what way you look at a cylinder you'll always have some light reflected back at you. Faceted edges only reflect back in certain positions. And by the time you aim they've moved away. The B-2 bomber has a huge radar return, but only when it's right on top of you.
Control surfaces (tails and fins) are all about moments (Force times a distance). Either they can be small and far away or large and close to the center of the airplane.
Wings are tapered from fuselage to the wingtip to reduce drag. The perfect wing shape is elliptical (like the spitfire of WWII), but tapering them right produces almost the same reduction in drag and is easier to build.
Other stuff tends to be common sense, don't make the wings too small, don't make them too big, let the pilot see, remember to add room for landing gear and fuel, etc.
This is most of the general stuff I apply to my airplanes when making them. If an airplane is ugly, something is probably wrong, either it's unbalanced, or has too many surfaces that cause drag, or is proportioned badly. A lot of it is instinct too. Sometimes I realize things look bad before I know what wrong. It's like anatomy. If something doesn't look right people notice, even if they're not sure why. It's funny how the best planes tend to be the prettiest. There are exceptions, but it's usually because sacrifices in performance were made for some requirement (guns, cargo, exterior sensors).
So yeah, I'll be amazed if anyone manages to read all this! But half the reason I'm writing this is to give myself a checklist, it's very easy to forget important stuff. Hope this answers your question!
Love the planes, I would love for you to use a less scrachy line on
you pencil work, some of you hads look below par, and sligthy bone less
like the left extended hand of the white japanese plane
you mark you muscle to harshly on the caracters, the abs on the
blue plane look off, so does the shape of the toraxic cage, specialy
on the lower part of the sternum.
The wrickles on their pants look to regular, you could shoot some
refs of your self or find some, doing natural good looking fabric
is no easy feat.
That all for now, I really enjoyed the SKB ill be bakc for more
I remebr beeing here before too, I really liked this one form the
first time I saw you images
Last edited by maxetormer; March 24th, 2006 at 06:29 PM.
Maxetormer: Thanks, I don't know what half those anatomical words mean so I'll have to look them up, but thanks! Eventually I'll try to fix some of the problems on the plane people.
Anyways here's a new sketchbook page. Practicing hands, semi-final design of the russian ramjet bomber, more chimera, and a bird.
I fixed up the inks and colored in this picture. I like the trees but the gound is a little blah.
A very light sketch (it's going to be inked over) for a new traditional art project. I bumped up the contrast so it can be seen better. Any comments on how the outline looks would be very helpful.
Yeah... sorry about the rambling on anatomy, I really like how your
mind works once you get all of this little things fixed your work will
shine much more, about this last pencil pic, the hand holding the sword
looks a bit off, the fingers dont have the right rithms, take a look at
this link it might help you out:
I mean its not like I think your hands look completly off, its just that they
lack certain details that make them a bit less real and dinamic, the possing
is a bit static and graphic but that might be what you were going for,
so ill just keep quiet about that
see ya later!!!
that was great stuff actually, i liked the comparison to human anatomy.. thats some knowledge thats really hard to come by in such simple terms that an artist can understand.. its like trying to learn artistic anatomy from Grey's when Bridgeman's books are around.. since im taking a concept design class right now, anything that will give more believeability to my concepts is gold...Originally Posted by staylor
Sweet updates dude It shows that u are a aerospace student
Check put my schetchbook if you please
maxetormer: Don't worry about rambling on about anatomy, it's stuff I'll need to learn eventually. I changed the hand a bit in this new picture, I don't know if I changed enough though. I really need to work on my hands.
Main Loop: Glad you enjoyed it!
And here's a new moleskine. The engineering building as seen from the campus center and my lazy lazy cat.
And here's the progress on the angel picture. I think she's (yes, it's a she, but it's impossible to tell under all the armor) coming out well so far. I like the feathers. I hope the hand is better now (be honest if it's not! This is a gift and I want it to come out well).
that was super interesting! Seriously.. that post rocked my mind!
Nice updates, too! Excellent recent moleskines and the angel does look like it's coming out well. I guess it's a little late for the feathers, but mind your line weight... it will add a lot of depth to the image.
Glickster: Thanks! Do you mean to work on the lineweight of the wing edges? I'll admit that lineweight definitely isn't something I have figured out yet.
Teeeny weeeney little update because I am lazy and don't fell like scanning (that'll come later).
Played around with the free version of Artrage 2.0 today. I really like how it gives real dynamics to the paint. Does anyone know if painter is like this?
Half an hour of playing with stuff.
The last updates you posted look good! Sorry i haven't been quite active here lately, due to the school applications, but i promise to mend my slacker ways
The lineweight issue could make a really big difference. Try to think thick lines where shadows and thinner near light. Some comic artist emphasize the outerlines, making the figure pop out of the canvas more. Also if you render too much lines the drawing can look too busy and the viewer doesn't know where hes eyes should go.
The cloud looks nice, but introducing some more values would be nice. maybe some shadowareas in the bottom too
Inkfish: Thanks, I've been trying to pay more attention to the line weight, hopefully it'll work out.
Rodrigo: I'm glad you liked the long speech! I didn't expect people to read it so I'm pleasently surprised with the feedback!
And here's a quicky sketch of some dude with wings and more playing around with chimera's anatomy.
And here's some initial concepts for a UAV that can walk on land as well as fly. Needs more work though to get everything to fit. Also some hands because I need the practice.
A new moleskine. It's finally warm outside! So I drew a motorcycle. I think I'll draw some more mechanical things. One of my goals is to draw realistic machines and scenes that don't actually exist.
Tadaa! The semi-final inks for the angel. I can already see some areas that I'll have to fix up, but I like most of it so far.
Duude!! Im sorry I didnt posted this earlier I know yu cant modify the image
but still I thought you could find this usefull, I did and overpaint of the hand
holding the sword, you see imo the main thing to make good looking hands
is looking for the right rithms (the overpaint its kinda rought but its
like 2 am here so bare with me a bit )
I hope this helps you a bit, if you dont wanna me to overpaint your
stuff just say the word and I wont do it, and if you want me to
remove the image theres no problem, see ya and keep it up!! I really
liked how the angel turned out!!!
Last edited by maxetormer; April 4th, 2006 at 02:16 PM.
The angel looks really good! how many hour did you put into that baby?
It's really great to see that although it has many detailed areas, they don't overpower the picture, looks solid to me.
Btw, as you posted on my sb seems like half of our ssg has gone missing. I think it would be a good idea to start looking for new replacements if they don't show up soon. What do you guys think about it?
Maxetormer: Ahhhh, now I see what you meant. I wish I hadn't been so impatient about inking it. Anyways, thanks for the paintover, I don't mind that at all. I really have to work on hands. Actually, I really have to work on alot of different things.
Inkfish: The angel took quite a while, I really don't know how much time I put into it because I worked on it over several weekends, but maybe about eight hours all put together? And I think it might be good to add more people into our sketchgroup.
I'm fairly busy right now with homework (and I just got an internship offer with Pratt & Whitney! So I have to get all that sorted out) so I don't have much good art to post. It'll probably just be quicky sketches for a while.
45 minutes in photoshop. I think I can file this under the "what not to do" category. Just an experiment.
A plane taking off that may be the base for my next try at painting in photoshop.
I realized that I haven't done that many character sketches. So here's some people. And a giant dude. His name is Teddy. Reference used for clothes and wrinkles in some places (sheesh clothing is tricky).
My sketches are really, well, sketchy. Does anyone know how to keep it from smudging and getting all nasty when erasing? Maybe I'm just using bad paper, I've noticed stuff seems to come out better in my large notebook. Either way I should probably be more careful.
Okay, stuff has been really hectic recently so I'm not going to be able to participate as much as I'd like for a few weeks. Afterwards though I'll get back to work. Sorry for temporalily ditching you guys.
Anyways here's the mostly finished picture.
Nice work, what other people have said is right, you need a cleaner line. When drawing from ref just let the pencil run along the paper, so you get flowing smoother lines. I get the feathery line thing as well, cos Im constantly trying the 'find the line''. Little more confidence will sort this out.
Im liking the work from imagination, there are some good concepts there. Would be good to see you doing more work from reference tho, this will push your imaginatve work.
The angel turned out great! it must have taught you a thing or two about inking Can you give me the dimensions of that piece? Anyways hope you get back soon
Alcian: "finding the line" is actually a pretty good description of what my problem is. I'll have to try to be more careful.
Inkfish: Thanks! It's about 11 by 14 inches (27.5 by 35 cm). Mostly done with micron pens on bristol board.
Okay, some homework has been moved back so I actually can post some art. I will do some more life drawings when I get the chance, but I just haven't had the time recently (and I'll be honest, I draw the fun stuff before the practice stuff).
And some good news! It looks like I'll be working with Pratt&Whitney this summer on the big commerical airliner jets! I'm really excited, so expect lots of plane art soon.
A little bit of a study into where muscles insert and interact.
Experimenting with some new techniques. A bit of anatomy too.
Stress relief. Also trying to see what markers, sharpies, and highlighters do when put together.
Last edited by staylor; April 13th, 2006 at 07:25 PM.
I really like the first one, you could down play the visiblity of the muscles
to add more variety of materials u know some areas will be on tension
wich will make some muscles pop and some areas would be relaxed wich
will make some are to be les defined, I know its more of a anatomy study
but I thought of telling you this anyways
Today I'm off from school!
I'll fix the signature to reflect the new group if I can. Right now I get a wierd error whenever I try to change it.
Maxetormer: I never thought of letting some of the muscles go slack, I'll have to try that out.
Just some quick concepts for an anthropomorphized F-14 Tomcat and a bit more work on the walking UAV.
More anatomy work and a sketch for a potential picture with the walking UAV.
Yet more anatomy work (apparently I was doing some things really messed up with the back). Also another walking UAV. I decided to put pulse detonation engines into the wings instead of attaching them in pods. Of course I forgot the inlets in the back wings :/
New moleskine. Not much to see just a lot a quick sketches of massive thunderheads.
And what those thunderhead sketches were used to make. I like how this picture has started. I just hope it will continue going well.
More stuff today! It's been gorgeous outside so I've been doing some outdoor sketches, as well as being lazy.
Latest moleskine, a nice car and a part of the prettiest house on campus. I found a nice pen on the ground and used it on the lower picture.
Played around with oekaki for about 25 minutes. I kinda liked it.
Partly done sketch of a character, then I got a bunch of better ideas and gave up on this particular picture.
More progress on the carrier picture. Had to bump up the contrast alot.
I'll have more critiques for you in the future, right now I'm just getting acquainted with your work. I'm noticing right away that you do a very nice job with feathers and wings. Favorite recent ones are here: http://www.wpi.edu/~stay1or/sketch/oekaki1.jpg here: http://www.wpi.edu/~stay1or/sketch/carriertakeoff2.jpg (awesome clouds!) and here: http://www.wpi.edu/~stay1or/sketch/yilindstarsbw.jpg (like this better than the colored version, looks like you maybe lost some of the contrast?)
Anyway, good stuff. I look forward to seeing more
Hey staylor, very nice stuff, I really like that dragon with a head cannon!
I also really like the drawing of the house and the guy jumping with a head cannon.
Try to make values when drawing more like you do when painting, not so linear perhaps. Maybe using the side of the pencil and valuing in layers.
Man, do you ever bust some serious balls, bro! You really post a lot of work! My favs are the moleskins tho, I'll admit. The loose crisp doodles you've got in there are really great to look at. I could get lose in some of those enviroz. And those kat drawings are tight as well. You've definately got some skills. It's gonna be great to see how you grow. I mean, I love your handling and working in perspective and all those machines. Beautiful stuff, bro. That first creature from the 13th is my fav so far tho. Keep up the great work! I'll be lookin' forward to your growth!!
Sorry that there hasn't been many updates recently. I'll be free after Tuesday next week. School is in its final stages and as usual everything is due at once. I'll try to get around to sketchbook commenting soon too.
bRØk3n_sPiRiT: Thanks! I know I've got some real pencils somewhere, I'll have to try them more. Most of the time I use mechanical pencils which aren't that good for gradiations.
Zebzfree: Thanks! I've actually been rather surprised at how well the moleskines have come out. Until this year I never really drew from life.
And here's a new moleskine. Rather sloppy on the bottom part because it got cold, but the top was rather fun.
I bumped up the contrast on the angel pic
More oekaki fun. I like the colors.
And (because I'll be the first to admit it isn't obvious) I am female
I've been fooled by online genders before (and for years I thought one of my favorite artists was a girl only to find he wasn't) so I don't mind it at all, I just think its funny
Last edited by staylor; April 28th, 2006 at 04:56 PM.