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I can't decide
That's right I posted it. I gotta know what other people think about this topic. I am torn myself she functions in a limited capacity, but I have a hard time believing a person would want themselves to exist in that state. I have a feeling the family just doesn't want to let go, and who can blame them. I would probably do the exact same thing, were I in their position.
I hate to do this after so much controversy, but I have faith that this thread will not lead to fighting.
Last edited by Ssenkrah Semaj; March 22nd, 2005 at 03:01 PM.
-Call me Semaj for short.
one fight and im banning. including you.
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someone plz ban that dood above me for hijacking this thread instead of doin some crits
i challenge you!
LOL, I don't think he is joking...sounds more like a maniacal laugh???Originally Posted by Jason Manleyone fight and im banning. including you.
-Call me Semaj for short.
I don't think they have the right to end her life. And I definatly don't see why they have to starve her to death. We leathal inject killers for crying out loud.That seems more humane to me. I heard on the news that at least 2 nurses overheard her husband ask "aint that Bit@h dead yet?" Or "when is that bit@h going to die". They even said they suspected him of injecting insulin in her in order to put her back into a coma.
But thats legal. Euthanasia isn't legal, so speeding her death up with poison would land the person doing it in jail. I personally think Euthanasia should be legal, but it isn't, so she has to starve in order to die.We leathal inject killers for crying out loud.
Also, how long will it take? And what goes through the feeding tube too? Is she being deprived of food and water, or just food?
To tell the truth, when a slab of meat is causing you that much trouble, and sapping your money, you'd probably harbor some ill will too.I heard on the news that at least 2 nurses overheard her husband ask "aint that Bit@h dead yet?" Or "when is that bit@h going to die".
Or maybe he's just scumbag, I dunno.
Omg that's such a stupid technicality ! So if say, I happend to stumble upon a burglar right in the middle of my bedroom which burglar flees, trips down the stairs and into the basement, his neck shatered rendering him quadraplegic, IF I quietly close the basement door and leave him there to starve, I could get away with it ?
Anyways, I don't want to blow on the embers, but I find this disturbing. Hopefully this issue won't be related to one of the seals for judgment day
On the other side of the coin, the media are making such a HUGE story out of this, could it be hiding something else ? Just talking trough my hat.
Almost everything her parents say seems to indicate that they want Teri to live for THEM... Where is their concern over what kind of life their 41 year old daughter will have when she has the mental capacity of a 6-month-old?Originally Posted by Teri's mother"When I close my eyes at night, all I can see is Terri's face in front of me, dying."
If you ask me, insanity is keeping your nearly brain-dead daughter alive just because you can't deal with losing her.Originally Posted by Teri's mother"Stop the insanity..."
Got an itchy trigger finger there, Jason? I don't think the fights are the problem, really, because people get heated in a discussion. I think it's people like Ilja Murometz who are/were the problem. It's when you get someone purpsefully inciting riot just to f**k with people. You should see the stuff he pm'd me. He even went so far as to rejoin CA to conintue harassing me after he was banned because I was the one that called him out. He rejoined not once, but at least twice, though the harassment did stop after he was banned the third time. That's what I'd be looking for. But that's just me and I don't pay the bills here, so I'll shut upOriginally Posted by Jason Manleyone fight and im banning. including you.
As for Terry Schiavo, my personal opinion is that this should not be a national debate. It's a terribly rending, upsetting and horrible struggle for her family and they ultimately should have the final say. Congress, and the rest of the country should respect that instead of making such a circus out of this.
I was browsing Darell Cagels' Political cartoons [ here ] and couldn't help but think of the horror I would feel if I were her parents and I saw some of that stuff. I can't imagine how they feel. Losing someone you care for is probably the single worst experience you can go through, but to have it trivialized like this, and prolonged is unthinkable.
It's up to them. No one else. I wish them the best.
....huh? What do you *I'm* banned.......? WAIT! No! that wasn't me! you got the wrommmmmmmmffff***
Last edited by S.C. Watson; March 23rd, 2005 at 04:57 PM.
Her brain is liquid.
Nothing's bringing her back.
Its been 15 years, let her die.
What's inhumane is keeping a mindless mass alive so that the Right can further their agenda. Terri Shiavo is nothing special.. there are countless others in the same position daily and they dont garner the same amount of attention from congress. The Right chooses thier battles. And they've explicitly chosen this one because its a win-win situation for them. If they keep the tube in and keep her alive on the produce shelf for another 40 years they win. If the tube isnt put back in and she dies then they win because they get to point thier finger and call the left a bunch of heartless murderers.
Its also quite curious that Tom DeLay is taking the helm on this fight and diverting all this media attention to it and away from himself when he has major inquiries looking into his own shady dealings.
dfacto, that "slab of meat" is a person.
Helix, Just because someone don't have all their mental capacities, doesn't mean they want to die. I don't know all the facts in this case, but the nurses say she is able to show emotions and say single words like, pain or mommy. Granted, thats not living life to the fullest, but we don't kill our grandparents when their too old to remember our name?
Groover, I don't think of it as "left and right" I choose to think of it as common decency. Starving to death is a terrible inhumane way to die. Ask those starving kids in Africa if their in any pain.
George Bush and Fidel Castro had an affair while you weren't looking.On the other side of the coin, the media are making such a HUGE story out of this, could it be hiding something else ?
Effectively, no. Without higher brain functions there really isn't a person there. A body doesn't constitute a person, a functioning mind must be present as well, and she doesn't have one. As long as she is in a persistant vegitative state, she is effectively a slab of meat, albeit a still biologically living one.dfacto, that "slab of meat" is a person.
If she is saying words and conveying emotions, she is still a person. She isn't in a coma.
I was hoping no one would bring this up.
I'm not voting in the poll because I don't believe I (or anyone else) have right of say over this matter. Its clearly a family business dragged into the media because newscasters apparently felt it will draw viewership. I don't think anyone has any right to influence any decisions....its the case for the family and the legal system.
I just wish whatever they eventually decide, she will rest knowing even though in conflict, both sides of the family are doing it out of love. (at least I hope it is).
There are 3 sides to every story. Yours, mine and THE TRUTH.
Well said massacre, but her parents obviously love her very much, and they have already said they want her to keep on living. The only one fighting for her to die, is her husband. Who, alleagedly has said bad things about her like he wishes she would die, and so fourth.
No, she isn't in a coma, she is in a persistent vegetative state, which is quite a bit worse. A persistent vegetative state is when a person's cognitive brain functions are offline, and only the non-cognitive ones remain, such as respiration. People in such states are known to move, make sounds, laugh, cry, and exhibit other signs that one might mistake for mental activity, but ultimately it isn't anything but inadvertant action.If she is saying words and conveying emotions, she is still a person. She isn't in a coma.
Tell you what defacto. You go here and click on the links that say videos of Terri. You be the judge.
My grandmother had a stroke a few years ago and got severe brain damage from it. She can breathe on her own and she responds by looking at you when you talk to her sometimes, but she can't talk anymore, or walk anymore, and is on a feeding tube. When she first had the stroke, they had her on life support and gave her children the option of taking her off, but my grandma never told anyone what to do if she got in this situation, so they never gave the okay to take her off of life support. This is the problem a lot of people have in this situation. They don't officially tell their family what to do if this happens to them and of course they have to make a very tough decision to ease their suffering, or to keep them alive in case they come out of it. In this case she "supposedly" told her husband, but didn't tell the rest of her family. Whether she wanted to die in this situation, or not, this matter should have been over with a long time ago. They have taken her feeding tube out and had to put it back in because they can't make up their minds on what to do. Either kill her, or don't kill her. They need to stop torturing this person. I also agree that if they kill her, they shouldn't just let her slowly starve to death. The way I see it though, I agree with her family, because her husband seems like he wants to quit caring for her and just get on with his life. Since she never wrote anything down, or made it widely known what she wanted done if this happened to her, I think she should be kept alive. It's gotta be impossible for parents to stand by and let their daughter die when she never told them she wanted to die in that situation. This should be a lesson to people, despite how old they are, to plan for something like this ahead of time. It will be a lot easier on your family. Personally, I think it’s at the position now that they should just flip a coin and let fate decide.
I concur, very well said dude.Originally Posted by ScubasteveWell said massacre,
Where are these sources that have reported the husband has said such things Scuba? I find it very hard to believe bro.Originally Posted by Scubastevebut her parents obviously love her very much, and they have already said they want her to keep on living. The only one fighting for her to die, is her husband. Who, alleagedly has said bad things about her like he wishes she would die, and so fourth.
-Call me Semaj for short.
Convincing if you take it in context with what the captions say, but it isn't convincing if one takes into account that PVS allows for such. She responds to stimuli, such as higher pitched voices (can see it in a few videos), louder noises, etc. Whether that is cognitive, or simply reflex is impossible to tell from the video alone.You go here and click on the links that say videos of Terri. You be the judge.
What I want to see is the full medical report, and if possible, results of brainwave monitors, and such.
That is unfortunately not for the public (I would presume) because of doctor-patient confidentiality.
However, she was diagnosed with this, and court appointed physicians have given the same ruling. I would tend to trust them over her parents, not only because they are trained professionals, but also because they are not emotionally attached to her like her parents are, and would not assume a certain response was a result of cognitive action out of hope.
Ultimately, nobody but Terri would know whether she is or is not alive in there, but that isn't worth consideration, because she can't do anything to inform us if she is, and if she isn't, then the silence is understandable.
Semaj, two nurses that took care of Terri for , I think it was about 6 months. It was on one of the news channels, Fox or CNN. One of the nurses even said that her husband came out of her room after having the door closed for a long time, and she went in the room after him. She said she Terri was acting hypo glycemic, and that she found a syrenge concealed in the trash can, that had been used, and marks on terri in odd places. She went to the police and was fired the next day. I'm not saying that its true, but she isn't the only one saying it.
She thinks he was trying to put Terri back into a comma, by injecting insulin.
Defacto, It doesn't take a doctor to notice recognition in someones eyes. Like you said though, only Terri knows for sure if she wants to live or die. But isn't it murder if she wants to live? If you can't be sure, how can you make a determination?
Last edited by Scubasteve; March 23rd, 2005 at 05:46 PM.
Schiavo Husband turns down $1M offer (and now $10 M)
Bush signs Texas Futile Care Law denying life support to those unable to pay regardless of family wishes:
Here's a short little interview on NPR with Dr. Jay Wolfson, Terry Schiavo's previous court-appointed guardian ad litem. He's says he searched and searched for consistent responses from Terry. Sometimes she appeared to respond, sometimes she didn't. He couldn't find anything consistent, which is what he wrote in his report which is linked on the interview page.
He says that Michael Schiavo doesn't want to divorce his wife and turn her over to her parents because of an incident that happened during one of the trials (explained in interview) and because he feels he can't allow Terry to live this way if it wasn't her wish.
Personally, I don't really know what to think of Michael Schiavo and I don't know what his motives are . . . I guess I'm kind of withholding judgement on that.
And it surprises me when people (including members of Congress) keep saying that because she is starving to death, she must be in pain. From all I've heard, she's not experiencing any pain--it's supposed to be like slowly falling asleep.
Jfrancis, I think what you've posted about the Texas law is a little misleading.
Doctors are allowed to discontinue life support if they think it's in the best interest of the patient (like if they think it's cruel to keep the patient alive).
If the family disagrees with this they are allowed 10 days to find another facility that will take the patient.
There is some discussion that hospitals are more likely to "pull the plug" on patients who can't pay, but I don't know that there's any proof of this.
link to radio story
i think she would be suffering more with the tube in her, i know i wouldnt want to be alive in that state.
Nathan Campbells 3 steps to drawing like a pro, 1. Sketch 2. shade. 3. highlights and ur done
If that were actually true Scuba why would he turn down that amount of money? It doesn't make sense, did you hear or see that report yourself? Tried to find a news article about it and could not, I think that is just a story floating around to tarnish the character of Schiavo's husband dude.Originally Posted by jfrancisSchiavo Husband turns down $1M offer (and now $10 M)
Last edited by Ssenkrah Semaj; March 23rd, 2005 at 09:23 PM.
-Call me Semaj for short.
Here's a link to back up what I said about her not being in any pain. Interview with Dr. Joanne Lynn about feeding tubes and what it's like to have one withdrawn.
Also interesting is this interview with Dr. James Bernat about the definition of a persistent vegetative state.
Here's an interview with the guy offering $1M.