Yeah, I'm with bonedog here. When I draw figures without reference its all pretty much based on construction and very loosely based on memory. I wish that I could draw people from my memory or my imagination exactly as I see it in my head, but its not very often that I can do that successfully and confidently without any construction to build from. As far as posing goes one thing that might help is to actually try to assume the pose yourself, think of how your various body parts are relating to each other in 3d space. Build off of the line of action in the torso.. think of how the rib cage and pelvis are separate masses and how the weight is being distributed. In a standing pose, an imaginary line could be drawn from the back of the neck straight down to the foot that is carrying the weight.. if the weight was equally distributed between both feet then the line would go straight down in between both feet. That is how we balance ourselves so that can keep our heads upright. Check out the first post in this thread by Michael Mentler - http://www.tsofa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=128 - thats pretty much what I am trying to describe. If you want to make a pose of someone that looks off balance, than it helps to deviate from the line of gravity, so there isnt any confusion of whether they are about to fall over or not. Would love to hear how everyone else thinks up their poses.
I do tons and tons of thumbnails. Most of them are garbage, but I always end up with a couple of great ideas. But I find it kinda difficult to come up with an original pose. I prefer dynamic ones even if they're harder to pull. I also draw more girls than boys (the women body is easier to draw... It's also more enjoyable, right fellaws? ). I think I'll do more men... or how about some muscle chick? :p
One of my biggest problem when I draw without a model, is the chin/jaw from angled-perspective. and for some reason, the rotating forearm gives me a headache too.
Looking back to the early pages of this thread, I realize I'm forgetting something important that bonedog mentioned. And that is to construct the shape! I tend to draw by intuition these days. It's becoming a really bad habbit. I'll try go back to the basics from now on.
I'm trying different ways to render but can't seem to pull that trick. I often mix hatching and side-dodge.
one2hit: Nice pose. Some torsion going on there! I often got issues with the forearms.
Some_Guy: That first one looks pretty cool but his right arm looks kinda small...
Josef K.: Nice work. Reminds me of a certain book...
S J Bennighof: Cool pose. Good gesture. The lower trunk looks odd to me.
I'll show some new stuff soon. Keep posting everyone!
Last edited by Pesmerga; April 14th, 2005 at 12:28 PM.
This pose is impossible (she's suppose to be sitting on her leg) when I realized she was floating, it was too late!
Pesmerga: I did a version of one of your drawings but unfortunately I don't have that sketchbook here at work. In any case, one thing I might suggest is to simplify your figures into cylinders and boxes, and then shade. (I see that you've started in places, but not gone the full 9 yards.) A great book that illustrates this process is by Glen Villpu. When you master that super-difficult step it's not such a big leap to turn that cylinder into a calf, or that box into a pelvis. I used to underestimate the difficulty and importance of this step, but really it's just about the most important thing in building solid objects on a 2D sheet of paper.
Anyway, I've been trying a lot of new figurative stuff. Here's a really loose attempt from last night. It's got flaws, but I've noticed that after I've drawn referenced figures for a few hours it seems so much easier to jump into no reference.
Last edited by bonedog; April 20th, 2005 at 05:25 PM.
bone, that's cool! I'd like to see finished hands and feet. Well I am really struggling with my feet right now, and especially planting them on the floor. Making some studies with that.
sometimes, I do quick sketching this way, thinking only about angles of the shoulder and gestural...not much thinking about blocks of the head, torso, and pelvis, but I should be.
The black lines here are the shoulder angle, and line of gravity. The red lines show that support always tries to come back to the center of gravity in the grounded figure. Not exactly together, but they try to line back to that center...I'm still figuring it out myself. The yellow line is the sweep.
N & B
--try to keep the lines straight and simple.
Same method here. The black lines are shoulder angle and line of gravity. Very important! something has to come back to meet the line of gravity...sort of. Tthe leg on the right in this case, comes back in. Since this leg holds the weight, it pushes the hip up on that side. Red lines are pieces that come back to gravity line, yellow is sweep of the figure. The blue line is the angle of the hips. When you start the figure and you are working from your imagination figure the size of the person out first, find the middle, find the shoulder angle and gravity...find the pose, and use blocks to block in the ribcage, hip area, and head. Develope the rest of the figure after that from the sweep line. Quickly...try to do some between 10 and 20 minutes, try to spend 40 minutes or more on others, variety, see what you can learn....
N & B
already about a month old, forgot to post it here at the time:
Bonedog ... good work !!
pesmerga, did you draw the clothed figure without clothes first ? I'm asking cause the shape of the front leg seems off (lower unclothed part doesn't seem to line up with the knee) ? And the breasts are too high on your females (I tend to make the same mistake as well actually).
one2hit, love the SJ redraw-girl !
one2hit: those are great. they're kinda rough on the line quality but they look fairly natural and proportional nonetheless. i'd say work on hands, but who am i to talk
Nightvision: cool drawing. i notice that it tends to flatten out in areas, especially in the torso. if you can manage to convey form with just line then you know you're really understanding things.
Here's a couple recent ones. I get so focused on trying to make things "correct" that I freak myself out and scare myself out of doing really wacky poses. By loosening up a bit I think I can get past that fear. Something like that.
You mentioned drawing breasts up too high.
Remember that the nipples on the male and female lie in roughly the same spot. Usually females are a bit lower if I remember right, but it's not always true.
Either way, the bottom of the breast needs to be below that point.
I see that mistake(and make it) plenty. But the bottom of the breast should be more than 1 head below the chin. Loomis says ideally it's 1 1/3, while the nipple is 1 1/6.
This thread is great, I hope you guys keep posting. I've been drawing a lot more since I started reading it. (Still not nearly enough.)
I've always had a problem with speed drawing, and thenlike, tightening a drawing. The ones on the right were done in a few seconds, and the ones on the left I took my time and tried to tighten it up. I started both with the same speed drawings, and then tried to build on top. It is almost like they change shape.
i drew this one in the beggining of this year.
lwjacob> One thing that jumps out in that drawing is the head. Should be smaller.
Draw a line at the ear, then at the top of the head. Halfway point should be the top of her head. (For your drawing only, not drawing in general).
Alright...So here I am, a little teeny-tot, browsing pages and of awsomeness, when I stumble upon this thread. I have never drawn a live subject, or studied anatomy (which I plan to ), so please excuse me crapping up this thread by posting my work...I would just love some critiquing and such, given that I have no idea what I'm doing...For the past year I've only been drawing faces and still life, and just got into figures. (this week ) So PLEASE rip this up, me needing it desparatly...
Oh, and I was wondering where to shade, so I left it blank...
Sorry for the big request...
Hers a linky if that didn't work...clicky
Love this thread. They say you've mastered figure drawing when you're able to draw an anatomically correct figure in any perspective without using a model. I'm far from that, but here's some of my doodling earlier:
"If you can fill the unforgiving minute...."-Kipling
Hey guys very good topic , I will start from here help me to pose the figure... hugs...
here is my attempt
please help me to fix the anatomy
"Roll the bones ''
I am thinking about getting involved here if I can find the time ~~~seems to be a good thread with good energy.
Leonard ~~ draw through the elbow and knee joints remember the muscles in the upper are and upper leg control the action of the forearm and lower leg so there is considerably interlocking
Hello, I just recently discovered this amazing thread, and so I thought I'd try to create some interesting poses. Don't be afraid to crit, i know its something I badly need.
This was an attempt at an odd pose, tell me what you guys think
random poses, i like the large on on the right, although some things aren't angled correctly
The torso study on the left was something i did a while back, so with the sketch on the right I tried to finish drawing what was missing on the left.
First off I have to think everyone from CA.org for this wonderful forum bringing together a great community of artistic individuals. Second I'd like to thank Chris for making an awesome thread. This is exactly what I've been looking for . flipping through this thread I've seen a lot of good feed back and progress amongst those participating.
Here a few poses of the figure I drew with out any reference from life. I did use some help from my anatomy references but not much. I'm challenging myself to draw more and more without references as I study the human anatomy. Please fill free to crit my stuff and thanks for viewing.
recently I've been really working on the profile shot of the figure.
Darktwin ::: Like the way you are handling the torso and leaving off the arms : this is highly recommended : I personally leave the arms off until I have the torso firmly established :
Ashrumm ::: Very good practice to look at unusual action as well : this is and area in life drawing classes that we don't get very much of because poses with a great deal of action just are not possible to hold for very long if at all : that is why it is so important to learn to draw the figure from memory in any position if you are ever going to learn to create poses with action!
Last edited by mentler; May 27th, 2005 at 10:06 AM.
Mentler:: Thanks for the reply to hear a compliment from a master like yourself pretty much made my day! I still have alot to work on, there are certain angles that I still cannot get especially that damn foreshortening. I'll try and post some stuff again here in the next couple of days. And that piece of yours is freakin awesome!!! The varied body types and how they are lined up I would love to have that framed on my wall.
Thanks for your crit Mentler, I've really leaned a lot looking at your studies more than anyone elses, I will be doing more studies of the anatomy from my mental library and really trying to understand regions of the body I'm not really that comfortable with. This torso profile study has really helped me a lot. Will have more studies here to come.
I agree with Martin..you have to constantly study..models and other works and learn to draw the figure from memory it all helps in the end..
Martin..le cuento que yo hace poco empece a tomar mi arte mas en serio pues yo deje de dibujar por casi 6 anos..claro nunca tome clases de nigun tipo..ni nunca pinte en oleo..pero ahora voy por tres anos a una escuela en north carolina donde me ensenaran las tecnicas antiguas....cuando vaya a Espana a visitar y conocer a velasquez me gustaria pegarle una visita a su estudio para intercambiar ideas le estoy hablando en unos an~os jeje...yo tuve planes de ir a la escuela de florencia pero me negaron pues el cupo es grandisimo..i would love to see your work..
terriffic thread. looking around my studio i see about 9 or 10 (visible) books dealing with anatomy in one form or another and the aim of this discussion is right on. to be able to work up convincing figurative work without resorting to models has been one of my chief goals in the past couple of years, and the limited success i have achieved has been very liberating. i have gone to the extent of modeling and casting a complete articulating half-scale skeleton for studio use, and have in the process (to a workable extent) hard-wired that structure into my cortex (the thing now sits unused in a dark corner, its work having been achieved). i still use my books for reminders on muscle insertions and the like, and when the mush that is my brain locks up, i find it extremely useful to do clay sketches, wherein what has sunk in seems to become more readily accessable for some reason. a distinct advantage i receive from this method is that i now have a mockette that i can light and reference for sketches, and even change the pose a bit! imagine how much more easily forshortening can be tackled in this way. but this is a digression from the intent here which is to draw from memory. as of now image hosting delays preclude posting examples from my sketchbook, but i will say that thinking in terms of sculpture has been a very successful tactic for me, as well as using a well-defined light source.
oops, spoke too soon. here is a very recent concept i worked up that illustrates using light source as a means to more fully express mass. this was done digitally, with the first sketch a watteau-like looser rendering focusing on rapidly blocking in the form, and the second a more honed-in effort intending to get a little closer to the point. from the second scetch it should be fairly easy to work up a reasonably competent figure. both done in about a two hour sitting. (i had a much better idea after some coffee and this remains unused
pleeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaassssssssseee help me.
i am right ow learbibg from a book about anatomy.so i have serious problems on the form and structure of the muscles.also am i supposed to commit each muscle to memory by drawing it about a thousand times?
Study that I did to begin a digital painting-