I hope to get some answers from some professionals here, I am really curious about this one. And I hope its the right section for this thread otherwise sorry !
I live in Germany and we have quite a strong burocracy here, which means that quite often nobody really cares about your skills, if you dont have a degree chances are rare you'll get a job even as an artist or musician, they trust paper more that what they see. However I discover lots of tutorials
and some professionals say that those are not only there to promote the industry but also for people who dont have a chance to go to any of those schools. To make it short, is there a chance to break into the industry without a degree from an artschool ?
If your art is good enough, you -will- get a job no matter what.
However, having said that, paperwork shows a potential employer
that you are disciplined, can follow instructions (important) and have
been possibly been taught by a respected member of this industry.
(Depending on where you studied...)
OP: The common knowledge is that you don't need a diplomat if your portfolio is exceptional but that's the thing; exceptional. Once you start getting experience, whether you had formal education or not is going to become quickly irrelevant but when you'll be looking for that first job? It's going to make your life a lot harder. The nice thing about school is that it backs you up when no previous job can. It's not as valued, but it still has more value then no experience at all. There's also the technical and un-artistic side of the job; methodology, good work habits, workflow, working as a team etc... Not to mention school create a lot of great opportunities to make new contacts. So my personal recommendation? It's worth at least looking at what your education opportunities are. Diplomas are the norm where I'm at (college or university) too but I've worked with a few artist who didn't have any... It's not common though, superior education isn't that pricey here.
Last edited by freiheit; August 13th, 2012 at 12:25 PM.
In the entertainment industry portfolio is number one. Personality and your ability to work under demanding schedules and still be a team player is number two. Diplomas don't even matter after that. Maybe it's different in Germany but I doubt it.
I work for a big german game company and I can tell you with full confidence that we couldn't care less what degrees you hold if you applied for a concept art position here. Portfolio is what matters.
I have no accredited degree, and so far it hasn't been a hindrance in my freelance illustration endeavours. I can say the same of some fellow illustrators.
What matters is a kickass portfolio, and that you deliver good work on time and are pleasant to work with.
Aside from what all the others have already said (which is certainly true), it's kinda questionable if a german art school will improve you actual drawing/painting skills anyway. I've talked to a student at the HAW Hamburg (only full Illustration course) and she said that perspective, composition, colors and all that pretty theory isn't viewed as very important by the professors. They say 'an illustrator doesn't have to draw realistically so why bother.'
Obviously I don't know if that's the norm, but if you read through the descriptions of most art schools you'll find that they all talk about communication and creativity, but none of them say anything about technical skill. According to some posts on precore.not you can even study art without be able to draw well. (I'd really like to be wrong, please correct me if you know better )
While its true that its only your portfolio that matters as I also stated
in my initial post. New artists should not get too caught up in the dream
that it will be so easy to be self taught and suddenly land a great job.
This whole turning your nose up at institutions is, to me anyway, drawing
parallels to the recent threads here where newcomers are too damned lazy
to even pick up a book.
I don't have any tertiary qualifications, but I can tell you that good education
is a precious gift not to be snubbed. I did attend art school all through high
school and while I did spend half the time smoking and indulging in heavy petting
behind the sculpture prefab, it was an eye opening experience. I had access to an
excellent library, filled with nothing else except every book on every aspect of the
industry. I got to see how strong the competition was in an environment where
the only pressure I had was a passing grade, not the threat of not having enough
cash to feed my family. Don't just look at it as getting a piece of paper, but consider
actually trying to learn something and having the opportunity to be lectured by modern
pros. If you see it as just going through the motions of getting a degree, then you
have to examine your motivations.
Last edited by Star Eater; August 14th, 2012 at 08:25 AM.
Don't confuse a degree with a good art education.
There are zero classical-academic ateliers here. Only in Gottfried Bammes' drawing classes you could hope to get solid figure drawing fundamentals... in Communist Eastern Germany, during the division. No more such thing now.
There are a few illustration courses, but the impression I got is that the HAW student you talked to is right. The emphasis is less on developing solid skills, more on "creativity" and "finding style", which is of course important but I doubt it can be really taught. I studied illustration for one year in a small private academy in Hamburg but even there, the teaching of fundamentals was lacking so I recently dropped out.
by any chance are there a few self taught artists that got a job at video game or movie industry as a concept artist?
Everything is permitted
most people i know in this industry, have no "concept art" or illustration diploma. none got one of the former, because its a young profession and educational systems in europe are slow and rigid. there might be some courses now, but there certainly havent been any a few years ago. there are architects, engineers, graphic designers, and so on.
all that matters is your portfolio, whom ever says a diploma matters is wrong.
Thanks a lot for your replies guys, I consider it important especially if you're in a situation where you cant go to a school but you're still good and passionate, as someone who doesn't have lots of experience I am very glad some of you are kind enough to give a serious answer to this, I know such threads have been opened million times...I know it was easier in the past, at least my subjective percetion, but I am wondering about today this is why I ask...
http://www.flemishclassicalatelier.c...-jacobs-course considering its in a neighbouring country. ill def. go if i manage to raise the tuition until then. (teacher of jacob collins, anthony ryder, michael grimaldi, to name a few.) also considering hes quite old already, this might me one of the last chances.
 if i remember correctly, he has studied under frank reilly, and i really would like to have the chance to ask ask a "few" questions about that
Last edited by sone_one; August 15th, 2012 at 04:51 PM.
didnt look at your location... thought youd be in the netherlands and complaining about the educational situation there... never mind then .
about my (?) expectations to go from zero to hero by taking that course... seriously i dont know how to take that statement, without beeing at least slightly offended.
it might actually be one of the few opportunities nowadays to get you very far though. (student of and monitor for reilly, teacher of several considered to be living masters.)
even if im not addressed directly by that statement, i feel its completely irrelevant. you can add that to every mention of books, courses, tools, tutorials, tips, sites, whatever ... NOTHING is going to make you go from zero to hero in 3 months... yet some opportunities might get you farther than others. i dont see the point in mentioning that at all.  especially considering all these complaints about the lack of proper education...
Last edited by sone_one; August 15th, 2012 at 07:25 PM.
Here's the deal...a poor student is a poor student. Whether on their own or under the best teachers out there. People that want it make it happen. People that think you're going to give it to them don't.