Never talk during the pose but when the next pose was being set up. Didn't have time to talk when drawing.
As an English teacher, I'm always amazed at the number of students who try to hide an earphone, from the side facing away from me. I mean, even if the music is so much greater than listening to me, they're only sixteen, so what the hell are they even listening to? Every time I ask it's Linkin Park, or Enrique Eglesias (sp). How long can anyone listen to that? I always ask them if it'd be okay if I, the teacher were wearing headphones. If not, then why should they? Luckily this year I'm at a new school with better students, so it's not an issue.
I don't mind chatter, music etc, but there are times when concentration needs to take first place. Even in an accountant's office I have told my colleagues to shut up as I have work to do. They took it well. Knowing when sound is welcome or not comes with experience.
Of course the question of music or no music, concentration or not is going to be different for every person and situation but the original question was whether it's rude or not in a specific class. And in every class I have taught or been taught in rude is never the question. In fact there is no question because the voice of the teacher is the answer. Before every class my students must bow to me and sing songs of my praise. They must shine my shoes, oh wait I wear Chuck Taylors, shine my head and if they want music they will listen to me sing or have no music at all.
Really the problem is that every class is made up of very different people. There is never a common denominator when it comes to music or what distracts or doesn't. And to tell you the truth most of my students don't know yet if they work best with or without music. They might think they do but I submit that they are still learning how they learn. So maybe teachers are saying give my way a try it might work for you. if it doesn't, you have your whole life to do it your way.
I think it's fair to say the consensus view is that nobody likes to have "music" inflicted upon them for a couple of hours when they're trying to draw the model.
It doesn't matter whether the "music" is some proctor's poor choice of atmospheric music or some asshats tinny rattle coming out of his earbuds.
[I'm not necessarily referring to the OP as an "asshat" per se, but he didn't seem to consider that the racket from "personal" stereo devices may well be the actual problem that the woman student in his situation took to the instructors.]
Otherwise, asshattery re this area would seem to function on an "if the shoe fits" basis.
It's the kind of interaction that would make for a good Seinfeld episode. . . .
Music doesn't naturally flow out of earbuds. Only when the person has it cranked up so fricken loud that they might as well have hearing damage does the noise slip out usually.
(Or really really cheap shitty headphones).
Huh! I sing under my breath while I draw or paint. Badly. Don't even realise I'm doing it.
I have bruises where people told me to shaddup.
If you're breaking even one person's concentration, stop it. Stop it now!
Apart from that, in any classroom situation, your teacher sets the rule. Just the way it should be...
Some time ago I read a saying that goes something like this "Your rights stop where someone else's begin".
If that meant that the expectation is to have a quiet drawing session, and some of us need noise to concentrate better, we don't have the right to intrude on those who operate within the regular setting, and make it worse for them.
Last edited by Conniekat8; February 16th, 2012 at 10:09 PM.
This attitude by some here that it's rude to others bothers me. Telling me what my preferred work environment should be is far more rude imo.
(again, in a setting with no instruction- with an instructor you should be able to hear the advice given to almost anyone in the room).
Well, personally, when I'm drawing, I don't want to interact with anyone, and I'm paying to be there and I want to get the most of my time there. Following your logic, one shouldn't use earbuds in the subway either.
It also shows a lack of respect for the instructor. Do you think instructors ever run into the situation where they might have something they want to mention or communicate to a student who has earbuds in and think, "Eh, I guess they're not really interested.". All the time.
I think it's arrogant and rude to expect other people to conform to what you think is "proper". If they want to isolate themselves listening to their music then it's perfectly fine.To isolate yourself in such an environment is both arrogant and rude.
I've only taken a few classes over the years nothing major, but when I did usually if the teacher said we're going to be doing a decently long little session of whatever we're drawing. I would just simply ask the teacher if I could listen to music.
I would get either :
A) Approval which then there's no disrespect and the teacher acknowledged I had headphones on. Or....
B) He/she would say no usually for the reason you couldn't hear what they say. Then I ask if I could just have one ear bud in if they state that reason (put the other in my pocket so noise isn't slipping out). Then once again either a yes or no. If no, then I would just drop it right there. Simple as that. But usually a teacher didn't care as long as you could hear them so they didn't have to flag people down just to speak.
Hmmm. . . well it kinda seems the consensus is that it may offend the model, though this one seems to be a case by case thing I'd think. Though (and call me stupid) I still find it a little weird that a model would be offended by a few people with headphones or buds in a room of 20+ people. They often don't see the work or give input and they aren't teaching, why do they care so much unless they're doing it for free.
I can totally understand the teacher being pissed about it though. And it makes total sense. But our teacher usually gives us things to look out for or to aim for before the pose starts and very rarely during. Plus i doubt anyone would have their music loud enough that they can't hear the things around them.
It is a social event and i understand that isolation may be seen as arrogant and rude, but since we're barred from speaking or interacting, why does that even matter. We're forcibly being confined to ourselves and our work, so why can't I if it disturbs no one, do what helps me personally work best.
As for headphones in public like on a train or outside, i say it's fair game. I don't need to hear anyone but i keep my music low enough to hear what's going on in general. And i find it a little funny that listening to music on a train is rude, while people read newspapers or knit or whatever. It's a public area, but not an area for public interaction. If i blast music from a boom box, then it's EXTREMELY rude, but headphones are 100% fine imo.
But since both the teacher, the life model, and the wise people of CA deem it wrong, I'll just accept this begrudgingly and listen to the music in my head.
Heaven forbid if anyone should actually have a conversation with a stranger, let alone find out that the 85 year old woman in the drawing class was once a character designer for Disney...or that the guy who draws really, really well with crayons is actually an architect...or any of the other thousand things that make people interesting and builds a sense of community. After all, you've paid your money, you're there for yourself...don't anyone bother me.
And while I'm at it, FFS don't ask me any questions, as in jetpack42's comment (who I normally agree with)...
Bottom line is you have the perogative to be whatever kind of person you want to be, which builds the type of society you want to build. Just be aware that because you don't want your behavior or preferences to be considered rude doesn't mean they aren't.
You know I'm regularly invited to do painting demonstrations for groups of artists or classes of students. I talk during my demos and answer questions while I'm painting.
I've painted plein air with Jim Gurney, Scott Burdick, Matt Smith and a bunch of other professional painters. We talked the whole time we were painting.
I've been in Life Drawing groups with Ian McCaig, Thomas Blackshear and Chris Evans, Steve Purcell and Ken Macklin and we talked the whole time we were drawing.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say If you can't draw or paint and carry on a casual conversation, not only are you being rude but maybe your too stupid to be an artist.
Thanks, Armand. Just did a spit take with my coffee.
At least Icarus tried!
My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
My "Smilechild" Music. Plus a medley of Commercial Music Cues and a Folksy Jingle!:
I think people forgot about the "work" part of this. Just because it's something you like doing...in the end it's still work. If you're in an environment where it's against the rules, then deal with it. I can just see this market becoming more competitive in the future (ffff, already has and is) and people willing to do without certain nice things because doing art for money matters more.
Just because it's nicer to have music, doesn't mean it's completely necessary. I'm honestly a bit appalled at some of the people are that irritated that they can't have everything he/she wants.
Office environments can change, where music was fine because you had the nice big building to play, you may move into one where the noise isn't well received. It's just the nature of leasing buildings.
I like working with music, but I also have times I actually don't work with music while drawing. It depends, and acting like my arm got cut off if one environment may not want music over the other when I'm being paid to work is a bit absurd. It's great many places are understanding and don't want to stunt creativity but I'd rather work in a place that has sufficient temperature controls, than freezing my ass off with blue fingers and a pair of headphones
Well Armand when you name someone good maybe I'll care.
The funny thing about your comment is that I have actually had students who have questioned the need to know anything but making pretty pictures. It's OK to be stupid if you're an artist.
When I'm concentrating on anything a bomb could go off and I wouldn't notice for at least ten minutes. Even then I might ignore it.