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So I looked at your OP, and it really opened my eyes as OPs tend to do. I really appreciate it.
I grabbed the photo I referenced and decided for the first time to try and place/scale it over my painting by using the eye position ( I actually decided to use the photo to make sort of a line table from his face to make sure I had the eye/nose/forehead/mouth placement right, but I never tested for width ) and you are absolutely right. The arm is completely off, it is gigantic! The body needs a serious reduction, the arm needs to be moved over. In terms of the head it needs to width on the right side, but to cut some off on the left side (too much hair on the left side). The ear needs to be brought in, the right cheek (his left) needs some serious bulking.
So yea, I will need to implement all your changes. Could you also help me with the moon by any chance? I really appreciate your help.
glad it helped
regarding the moon...
most important... the eyes are too small compared to the other features.
then it gets difficult depending on what youre aiming for.
imo he doesnt look wise... thats probably a matter of personal taste, but to me the illustration of wise looks like leonardo da vinci or gandalf, and so forth. some key features contribute to that. eyes lying deep inside the head (lots of shadow), lips of old people (yours look like 20-30 because theyre rather full and have this hard edge, especially the upper lips), wrinkles on the forehead, etc..
another thing is the structure. im not really sure in this case if its for the better, but ive given my overpaint a more dramatic lightning and more emphasis on the structure, yet im not really sure if the "moon-thing" doesnt get played down too much then. im a structure guy, but if its appropriate here, i dont know.
in general i think you would benefit from, cutting some time from creating and investing it in doing some studies of the fundamentals. youve come a long way and your pictures improved, but i think youd leap onto an entirely different level if youd be more firm concerning those.
anyway keep going mate.
Oh wow, you are my hero!
That is an excellent expression and great volume. I will definitely rework the moon based on your work, especially the eyes and mouth.
Here is my reworking of Louie!
Last edited by Pavel Sokov; August 15th, 2012 at 02:16 PM.
only crit I have is that it feels a bit empty without the other arm in there "somehow". Could his hand be lying on the table or so? Would really fill the void. The blue you added in your last one isn't helping too much. The lipking'ish background in your next to last update is very awesome. Imho.
Edit* Look at the composition in thumbnail view, and you see how its falling over to the right, if you can't support that somehow.
Yeah, it kind of is falling over
I will try and add a dab of the other arm to see if that fixes it.
Also, I just searched Lipking, and wow! I can't believe I haven't heard of him before, his painting style is gorgeous!
Lipking is a king. i think so anyway.
sb most art copied to page 1
Weapons of Mass Creation 2011 ::: Add your favourites!
facebook: Alface Killah
Just started another comedian's portrait, Marc Maron who also happens to be Louis CK's old room mate. I heard he looks at and posts ALL his fan art, so I am hoping he will comment on mine.
I am maximum 2 hours in, and I am doing it with a completely different method then ever before.
Man, you've really taken your photo portraits to another level. That Louis C.K. is great.
My Sketchbook: Criticisms and Feedback needed
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."
Lao-tzu, The Way of Lao-tzu
Here is the moon based on sone_one's OP. I tried to make it a lot more subtle and less creepy though, this is for children.
It is not done, just checking in with an update.
Maybe my character is better as Russian Bane?
Last edited by Pavel Sokov; August 28th, 2012 at 05:48 PM.
I am sorry to be rude, but I really do need some critique on the Marc Maron and the Moon. They are both very important, and I have developed an unhealthy need for CA to sign off on my works before I release them..
Aren't you addressing your problem yourself by admitting that you need everything to go through CA before release?
I get the feeling it's more about recognition than critique, though.
It is not about recognition. It is about the simple fact that my paintings end up better after a round of comments on CA, then without them, and I subsequently learn a lot. I often call a painting finished (Like Louis CK), then CA points out that I am not done yet and I can still fix some stuff causing me to continue working far beyond what I expected. That way my work completely improves. Knowing the sheer amount of additional quality that is at stake makes me fearful to not ask for critique, as I know I could be missing out on tons of improvement.
Although sometime I man up and don't post a painting until it is done, such as the Australian Portrait, and the portrait of my friend Mohammed.
Anyways, how is the moon and Marc Maron?
I like the wolf except for his really static pose. Did you try experimenting with any alternatives originally, even almost lifting one leg, resting one leg or something to break the monotony. Or exaggerating the standing pose by having front legs really close to one another and having the chest stick out with a bit of swagger.
The biggest problem for me is the hill though, it looks like a big melted blob of something. Definitely not snow. The footprints make it even worse, since they don't sink to the snow as they should if there actually was as much snow on the ground as there are on the trees. I'd say do a drawing of the structure beneath the snow and then hang the snow on top of it logically. At least get rid of all the weird detail that's so un-snowlike. And remember that the wolf is back lit, so the hill should be too. There's no way the snow would be that light below the wolf if the hill actually goes down. Actually it should probably be darker than the snow on the lower left, since that snow is hit by moonlight straight on. I also like the pointy trees.
Thank you guys!
I appreciate the both of you coming here, and even making a PO.
You are absolutely right about the pose, I am very tempted to try and get his legs closer together and get his chest puffed out! That could be a great enhancement on his swagger, and also wouldn't be such a drastic change either.
I also agree, now that I look at it, with your comments about the snow. My snow is pretty weird. It looks like icing on a cake. Maybe I should have broke it up by showing some earth. You are right.
Thank you so much for the PO. You are absolutely right about the reality of the lightsource, and in your treatment of it. However, I was hesitant to do it that way since the wolf looks much more then proud, now sinister. That is too much, and seems to be a really ominous character. As an experiment I should try and PO myself to replicate your lighting, but as it looks right now, that is just too evil looking for the painting's purpose I am afraid I may not be able to have a correct lighting system, and a friendly enough looking wolf. The other part of the problem is that the moon should not be moved as it is one of the characters of the story, and as it provides the light source, I am essentially stuck.
you are stuck because of your setting. the "full moon at night" setting is "sinister" in itself and if you stick to it, then you gotta live with it beeing misterious and dark mainly dominated by shadows, or youre breaking the believability of your image introducing stuff that makes no sense.
easy solution: the moon can occasionally be seen during bright days aswell.
That will definitely be happening during a lot of the panels.
For example here is one I am struggling to no end with. It is a sunset (or a sunrise, I can honestly tell no difference), and the moon is out.
The story here shows that the wolf has been disrespectful to the animals of the forest, and has somehow wronged this arctic fox. My writing partner and I kinda left it ambiguous as to what he actually did to the fox.
I am struggling with almost every aspect of this painting. The composition especially. I am also struggling with the snow looking like icing on a cake, and the wolf looking really different from the correct design in the panel I posted earlier. This one has Anime style eyes, which I really really don't like, but I can't seem to get them to look the same as the proper wolf above.
Any sort of help would be a saver, I am really struggling with this one!
There was a cartoony pencil sketch I did in 2010 of a cowboy. I found it again and felt the urge to do a quick paintover on him.
Last edited by Pavel Sokov; November 22nd, 2012 at 12:10 PM.
This is getting kinda confusing, your thread title talks about the wolf but when I go to the last page the final image is a random cowboy that's also the thread thumbnail. Are you going to keep working more on that over the wolf or was it just something random? I mean I get wanting to keep stuff in one thread but personally I'd keep continuing projects, like the wolf one and the portraits in their own threads.
As for the wolf pic, the limb anatomy is screwed up (study short haired dogs on how their front foot bends when they walk, right now yours is a just a floppy bend with no structure, and almost same can be said to the other legs too and overall I have a feeling that trying to render the hair is confusing you both from the form of the animals as well as how the lighting falls and causing you to also fall back to adding rimlights in places where they wouldn't happen and just don't really fit).
And there's way too much light everywhere, I mean here's a photo of an arctic sunrise:
In yours there's a lot more light everywhere, and the feeling isn't that it would be the moon's light that giving all that. Actually the moon is really creepily over detailed and "real" for that scene since it's not meshing with the cartoon animal style or the scene, as it's literally hovering over the clouds at the moment.
Also the wolf is breaking the fourth wall by staring directly to the viewer, which I don't think really works.
Yea the cowboy was a distraction to try and get a fresh eye on the wolf. I thought it was pretty fun, and the pencil drawing for this cowboy was already there! I tried to use a lot more texture, and I think that worked out well. Something to think about for future pieces.
For the wolf, I had a reference (I can't find it anymore), but my wolf ended up very floppy as you said. I don't know why this is such a challenge. I also tried to make sure he looks like the wolf in my previous painting, but that didn't really work either.
The moon has to be seen judging the wolf. I do think maybe my treatment of the moon's face did not come out particularly kid friendly, and I am struggling with that a lot too. Maybe the features should be more subtle?
I will try to darken up the foreground like in the photo and see how it effects the mood!
Would it be possible to get an Overpaint on specifically the wolf anatomy? I am fairly confused with him I must admit.
I mean realistically from so up high the moon wouldn't be looking directly down, but with a cartoon logic it's much more clearer that the moon is looking at the wolf if its eyes were directed down, towards the wolf where it is in the page.
I whipped this up pretty fast. There's two versions of the walk, the first one being more of a "direct" walk away, like "I'm leaving and I don't give a crap" and the other more to what you originally had. Overall I'm confused about the wolf's emotions, you say you want him to be arrogant and do badly towards the other animals (and I assume he'll learn a valuable lesson), but you draw him to look so nice and gentle, which is also becoming bit confusing. If you want him to look/be arrogant, it's okay to give him a bit meaner expression, especially is you want this to be clear for kids, etc. Because right now it doesn't look like the fox is sad because the wolf wronged him, but be sad because the wolf is leaving.Would it be possible to get an Overpaint on specifically the wolf anatomy? I am fairly confused with him I must admit.
why this scene? theres no forest, theres not a bunch of badly treated animals... theres no story (especially not the one youre supposed to illustrate) in this.
i wonder if you actually do exploration sketches, before diving into those rather defined paintings, because to me it looks like youre worried about execution way more than actual content. and i think this is holding you back. i got this feeling because in all pictures that relate to that story, you mentioned youd be stuck on and theyre giving you problems you cant easily solve. yet not once ive seen you reconsidering the picture as a whole. or solving those storytelling and compositional issues before spending alot of time on them.
You made a fantastic point about the moon looking down. I will definitely have him look down. Also his mouth may be too scary looking.
I will use the left most pose for the wolf, I really like it! Like he is briskly walking away.
The head is great too, the sly facial expression is spot on. The only thing is that it does not look like my original wolf (The one standing on that hump of snow with the moon above him), which is more angular and less anime in the eyes. However this is a great place to start and try and match the old shape from.
I don't, I am a terrible undisciplined artist. There is no excuse as all manners of study and preparation as well as research save so much time in the end, not to mention will lead to a better, more educated result. I don't know what is wrong with me. I think the problem is I think the following way: Ok, I have very little time to paint right now. I want this children book done sometimes before I die of old age, so I can do 1 of either two things: make exploration sketches and search for the best possible solution, or simply just get started with no prior thought and contribute DIRECTLY to the final product, where every stroke goes straight into the completion of the book as opposed to helping me compose something better.
I am greedy with the little time I have. This is not clever.
thats not the case though... because if every stroke would go straight into completion you would just draw the damn thing and done. thats not my impression though, hence you asking for urgent help everytime, mentioning you are stuck. i dont know how much time you invest until you post them here... but cut 1 hour off of that for thumbnailing storyideas, and another for working out compositional solutions for them. after those problems are solved its just a matter of progressive definition.Ok, I have very little time to paint right now. I want this children book done sometimes before I die of old age, so I can do 1 of either two things: make exploration sketches and search for the best possible solution, or simply just get started with no prior thought and contribute DIRECTLY to the final product, where every stroke goes straight into the completion of the book as opposed to helping me compose something better.
even if you manage to pull off that scene better than anything ive yet seen, i dont see any storytelling happening thats closely related to the subtext thats put next to it. "animals of the forest"... man theres not one tree in that image, not even shrubbery.. . (eki eki eki patang)
just saying that there might be more simplified solutions that take less time to ponder about, if the direction is considered early.
Last edited by sone_one; November 14th, 2012 at 06:56 PM.