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wow!! so much improvement from post #113 to #117
your figures are much much better, especially the proportion
you might wanna work a little on hair, but they look cool bald too
I love your figures from those last two post!! By the way nice avatar keep it up!
Miss.BonBon, hehe, I don't know if it's really improvement. Probably just because I was heavily referencing Phoenix's videos. We'll see when I actually do some figures completely without reference. The 103 course ends with The Human Head Basics. I'll probably start playing with hairstyles after that. Glad you like the avatar!
Here's another sunset photo study. Photo taken by a friend again. I really should get my own camera and collect my own reference.
First I thought painting the water was going to super tedious, and tried some short cuts to do it, but didn't like how it was coming together. Then I just decided to suck it up and use the basic round brush for pretty much everything. Turned out that painting that water was SO MUCH FUN! I had to use a slightly textured brush for the clouds, just couldn't get them to look how I wanted with a round brush. Also, the lensflare was a freaking pain! Didn't use any tricks for it, just painted it straight on with a bit of smudge. No color picking this time either, the main cause why the colors are slightly off.
~2 hours in GIMP, all in one layer (did occasionally use a 2nd layer when I was making additions I wasn't sure I wanted to keep).
Human Proportion Basics by Riven Phoenix. Learning a small bit more about proportions, mostly the same basics though. Trying out a more realistic style of rendering using a blending stump. Learning this style of rendering has probably been the most valuable thing in this batch of videos so far. Fun stuff! Getting nice soft transitions isn't nearly as tedious as with pencil only.
Here's tonight's batch. Figuring out the differences of female proportions and getting more used to this style of shading. This part of the course seems to be taking a while because of the rendering style, but I'm finding the info on female proportions very useful. Can't wait to get to the Head Drawing section. I feel like my heads are really bad. I've been neglecting them. Maybe I should do my next color study as a portrait...
And as always, many thanks to Riven Phoenix for this drawing course.
Multiple figures interacting...kinda. This took way too long. Kept redrawing the female and the big guy more than once or twice. The poses are somewhat different than on the video, so quite happy how it turned in that light. Next up: Head Drawing. Might do some painting before that again.
Hey mate, your figures have certainly gotten better since i last looked! well done on getting stuck into that digital as well dude, you have progressed. I think you are right about the heads though, they seem to be the weakest thing with your bodies, but hopefully you'll clear this up when you study heads.
Thanks for that in depth critique on my page aswell, its the kind of stuff i need to hear
DTP, thanks, and you're welcome!
Head Drawing. Got really frustrated at one point about the head facing downwards. Couldn't get a good scan of the last page since it was the last one in the sketchbook.
I'll be crazy busy with work and martial arts for a week or so. Hope it doesn't ruin the pace I've managed to get into.
You asked, so here I am. For sake of everyone else I'll be talking in English.
Anyway, considering the Riven Phoenix thing, since you're also doing other stuff along him, I don't think you'll be having too much too bad mistakes, and as I haven't fully watched all the videos, I can't say what all could be potentially blamed on those so I'll be just pointing things generally. Also if I missed something you or someone else had said or drawn in here and repeat something, sorry about that.
Mainly I'd say that if you find Riven's method of memorizing muscles easy, it's good but I'd heartily suggest that instead of drawing what he has drawn, you'd rather take something like a doctor's anatomy chart, or something another artist has drawn (Loomis, Bammes, Bridgman, Szunyoghy) and use those as your reference, while applying whatever method Riven uses that you find helpful. That way you'll learn to mix learning practices and you won't accidentally just mindlessly copy something, your brains will have to think a bit.
Now, concerning the images. Life drawing and especially gesture are needed. Your figures are very stiff and unnatural and there's very little realistic weight on their bodies.
Another recurring theme I see are muscles that are drawn, but which do not react to movements. Especially good example of this would be posts #109 and #113 where not only is the latissimus dorsi wrongly attached (in yours it seems to be connected under the breast, when in my knowledge it's connected to more under the deltoid, that is, to the arm) but it doesn't move at all, despite it actually following the movements of the arm.
And I don't think I saw you do any basic rib/pelvis twist practices in the most simplest state. This is also example of simplifying even more, but I personally find this even clearer, because unlike Riven's version, the first Bammes version doesn't have the overly round back in the rib section which is used only after these. Basically I'd suggest you to practice these too:
If possible, get shirtless in front of a mirror and also study how your skin and fat moves when you bend and twist your body. Most of the characters in here seem to be lacking any moving fat or skin, and the bend is only visible because their abs aren't straight. And though knowing muscles is important, it's also important to learn what muscles actually look like with skin and fat on top of them and what they look like when they're relaxed.
As for the heads... The method I found most useful to me when constructing the head was Bridgman's. As for the actual heads, the profile one and the old guy don't look too bad, but those expression ones really need some good photoreference. Again the muscles aren't moving how they're supposed to or look darn unnatural (I mean I'm not sure is it even possible to see that much sunken cheeks while smiling [at least that close] seeing how the cheek is being pulled back) and the mouth open man seems to have some structure and perspective problems. Because we are seeing his upper head from below, but his upper teeth from the front instead from below, the length between his teeth and nose seems proportionally too large. Here's be a a good ref, but notice that we're seeing his face from a different angle: http://kevin-powe.nerdfu.net/blog/im...-angry-man.jpg
Anyway, hopefully some of that was helpful or worth thinking, and I personally suggest getting Gottfried Bammes' book "Complete guide to life drawing" if you don't already have it (you can order that from Bookplus.fi) as well as Andreas Szunyoghy's "Anatomy Drawing School" (found mine from Stockmann Akateeminen) which I find to be very nice as a quick muscle and bone reference book even if the actual figures suffer from stiffness.
Tinybird, those are some great tips! Good for me to read too. =p
Nice work kitfox! Keep working on that anatomy, but also try some different techniques: you might want to try your hand at some sumi-e or 1 minute drawings to get a more fluent quality to your drawings. And I can't stress enough how important life drawing is, it's a different way of drawing since you're translating 3D to 2D instead of 2D to 2D. From what I've heard life drawing helps you improve way faster than photo reference and other drawings. And I have to say, since I started life drawing at school my skills have progressed a lot =)
TinyBird, huge thanks for the detailed critique! Major respect. Ordered both book recommendations, can't wait to get started on them.
Rengin, thank you for the suggestions. My life drawing will probably have to be more on the still life side as I work a night job and rarely go out during the day... or... at all, since there's not much to go outside for at night.
Here's a quick gesture update to get back into things.
the landscape you did in post #122 is really better than the previous ones,and the fact that you picked color manually makes it even better. I guess using a round brush helped, the edges are improved
your proportions look good in post #123 except maybe for the hands that look a little bit long
your female figures look as nice as the male ones, and nice rendering as well. just keep in mind to make the darks, dark and keep the light parts light so the images will have a higher contrast and pop out .
when drawing a stretched or twisted pose, it helps to use overlapping forms to emphasis the stretch/twist of the figure. (the image I attached is quite small but I hope it helps, it shows a series of simplified forms being stretched,twisted and turned )
the heads are the hardest in a figure in my opinion, especially getting the perspective and expressions right. yours are not bad but keep working on them and learn the construction of the head.
It's good to see you're doing quick gestures, they really help loosening up and is a good practice both for the warm up for doing longer poses, or learning how the body works in different actions. Don't worry about the muscles and other details at this stage, just try to analyze the pose and capture the fluidity and movement of the figure
Last edited by Miss.BonBon; October 4th, 2011 at 07:49 PM.
Miss.BonBon, thanks for the compliments and suggestions!
Started my subscription to Gnomon's Workshop and watched my first foundation video that went through the basic freehand perspective stuff. Found out a lot very basic exercises I've been neglecting, a lot of stuff I need to do. My brain almost fried when I was constructing more complex shapes with all the guide lines. Need to do more of those to get more comfortable with them. So far very happy with my subscription.
Last edited by kitfox; October 6th, 2011 at 01:58 AM. Reason: typos
Been watching Gnomon's stuff a bit more but getting a bit disappointed with it, still a lot to check out though. I just feel like I'm not getting a whole lot out of the demos on the foundation courses... Maybe I should just practice and play around with the stuff I've learned so far. Drew a bunch of scribbles I'm not gonna even post. But here's a couple of fleshed out gestures I did before work.
I'm having trouble finding good tutorials or demonstrations about gesture drawing. I've got Vilppu's Drawing Manual and Bammes' book on the way but they'll probably take at least a week to arrive, or two. At the moment, my gesture is pretty much just an action line and a stick figure. Then I just go straight to blocking things in shapes and contours, refining the whole thing. If I let go of construction and just try to "feel the movement" I lose all sense of proportions and ratios. All I get is a crappy mess that's hard to refine into a complete figure...
Anyways... Here's some crappy sketches from imagination. Then some kind of character design that sprouted after sketching a pose from reference. I'm starting to hate this low quality printing paper. Can't rework anything, erasing just leaves smudges. Gotta get that new sketchbook or at least a better stack of paper. If I ever was awake at day time... Why can't all shops just be open around the clock!?
Meh, to be nocturnal...
Whenever I do gesture drawings, I always start with construction of the torso and hips, then add the arms, legs, and face line (never have time for a full head, so I just use a face line, properly used, it can suggest the entire head). On really difficult poses, I sometimes need more than 30 seconds to get the pose down, but for most poses, 30 seconds is just fine. If you lived close to me, I'd give you one of my sketchbooks. I got like eight through my school, enough to last me for at least a year or two unless I draw like a total loon and chew through eight pages a day. They are those big SOB's too.I'm having trouble finding good tutorials or demonstrations about gesture drawing. I've got Vilppu's Drawing Manual and Bammes' book on the way but they'll probably take at least a week to arrive, or two. At the moment, my gesture is pretty much just an action line and a stick figure. Then I just go straight to blocking things in shapes and contours, refining the whole thing. If I let go of construction and just try to "feel the movement" I lose all sense of proportions and ratios. All I get is a crappy mess that's hard to refine into a complete figure...
EDIT: Don't bother checking my sketchbook right now. It hasn't been updated in three+ months.
My Sketchbook: Warning, it's image heavy. Twiggers "Learning to Draw" Sketchbook
just looking at those freehand perspectives you did made my mind friend!
as for the gestures there's no definite rule for doing that, everyone have their own style of doing it, some people start straight with blocking the pelvis and torso and adding feet and hands either in cylindrical forms or just lines , some people's gestures are not more than stick figures, and some try to capture the rythm and flow first and then add some volume to it. I have the problem with the proportion when doing gestures too, guess it will get better with time as we get used to drawing loosely and with fluidity
watching these might help you
Keep up the work man! Your designs are gettin better! Let's see some more paintings!
metalhead3 -> http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=222988
Trailblazer -> http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=179035
MusicMetalHead, I usually do exactly what you're saying. I'm realizing more and more that it's not a good way to do gestures. I think it's a good way to draw from your imagination, to build up the figure, but not a good way to describe movement, which is what a gesture is supposed to do. But thanks for stopping by and offering your sketchbook! I'll get my own sometime this week.
Miss.BonBon, thanks for the tips and links! I'll be dwelling more into Vilppu next.
Sean McClain, thanks! I'm trying to be more disciplined, but sometimes it doesn't work... ehehe.
Not_Deadman, thanks man! The painting's will probably have to wait a bit. I can't get over how bad I am at the fundamentals. I also think that I shouldn't too accustomed to digital work since I really haven't painted traditionally at all.
Some random scribbles from imagination and photographs. Also page of my warm ups that I've started doing. Practising freehanding straight lines and ellipses.
My copy of Vilppu's Drawing Manual arrived so I'll be working with it next. Only quickly glanced it through for now, but his figures really are full of life. Hope I can bring some of that feeling into my work.
Working with Vilppu's book, trying not to copy much but work with the principles. Did quite a bit of gestures... Feels like I'm going backwards.
Last edited by kitfox; October 11th, 2011 at 07:04 PM. Reason: Accidentally the whole post submit.
Stuff from Vilppu and from imagination. Just.. kind of... doodling. I don't know if I'm getting anywhere but at least I drew something. It bothers me how unstructured the book is, at least in the beginning. If I didn't have previous experience in figure drawing, I think I'd be totally lost. Maybe it's just assumed that you draw gestures for 6 hours a day for a year, so you pick up everything from that... Bleh. I suck.
Just wanted to post a quick picker-upper - Don't forget that usually when implementing a new technique it takes a while to get the hang of it and make it your own. At first your drawings may seem clumsy but after a while you'll be combining these gestures with the structure you've studied and know a bit better already. The same might go for different media that you're using, or different ways of constructing the body (boxing it all in, using flowing lines or bubbles to indicate volumes, etc). So keep it up! And I have to say there are a few in there already which show both flow and pretty sound structure =)
Rengin, thanks... I just can't seem to pick myself up...
I dunno what's wrong with me. Really hitting a slump here. I seem to be failing anything I try. I don't feel like I'm learning anything. I feel like my work is only deteriorating. All the old things I've learned so far are starting to feel more and more vague in my head and I can't put anything on paper properly. I know it's stupid to rant like this, everybody goes through these phases, nothing special about me. And probably only a half of the few people who visit here actually read the posts... It's just fucking hard right now for some reason. I feel so useless. I don't want to quit. I want to keep drawing and practicing. But it all feels like it's for naught since I'm only moving backwards if anywhere. Certainly can't enjoy any of it...
Another 10,000 hour'er!
I've just looked through your sketchbook and I can see a MASSIVE improvement in everything, your figures, your heads...and those latest perspective studies are awesome. So don't get discouraged; you've come a long way. If you're having trouble making information "stick", everytime you learn something new (from a book, reference, etc) do it again and again and again AND AGAIN from imagination
It sounds like you've hit a plateau; keep going, keep pushing through, even if you think you're falling on your face you're still moving forward.
And remember! "a smooth sea never made a skilled sailor"
lohes, thank you for your kind words. Your sketchbook is awesome, wish I was cut out to progress like that.
Got my Bammes' book a couple of days ago and tried to get started with it but got stuck on the first page I worked on. Pelvis just doesn't agree with me, I couldn't get the form right after 2 hours of dissecting it...Not even going to bother posting all the sketches. Only made some measurements for the front view that worked but as soon as I tried to put anything in 3D all went to hell. It's like my brain doesn't want to learn or understand anything.
Then did some crappy freehand perspective again. All my "straight" lines are curving and perspective lines are going all over the place. Ellipses are just wrong.
Meh, just gonna stop ranting, I don't even have sympathy for myself. I'm just a stupid person who doesn't even make up for it by working hard...
hey man don't get discouraged, I think you're doing a really good job here. There are times that we all might think that we aren't getting anywhere, but that's because we can't see the improvement ourselves so we think we are stuck. But actually progression is happening little by little, and then after a month or two when you go back and look at your previous works I'm sure you will see what you've achieved.
Those set of gestures you did in post #141 look pretty good to me, fluid and loose. I think you need to practice box form more, they are the hardest one. don't rush through the book, take it slow and after completely understanding each chapter and practicing it move to next chapters. those figures in #142 look well constructed as well. good combination of cylindrical and box and bubble forms.
And about those pelvises the problem may be the perspective. so I'm guessing as you get the hang of perspective more, that will be solved. We don't usually get thing all at once, bu with practicing it more and more it will become second nature. so have faith in yourself and continue to draw more and even more
Miss.BonBon, thanks again miss. I feel like box forms are easier because the planes are clear. Cylinders are faster to use but I feel like they're harder to shade. I'm trying to somehow get into more free plane setup to make up the forms. And I gave up on the damn pelvis... Just going to stick to simpler forms for now.
I think my emotional state is getting better. Watched a couple of streaming classes from TAD's shop and did some sketching. So here's some scribbles from imagination. I think I actually know more than I can implement in my drawing so I'm just gonna take it slow for now and work with what I have. Maybe reference some details add some punch to things.
Reilly abstraction methods from Ron Lemen's video set. Quick, crappy, head sketches and perspective things from imagination.
...Yup, still at my barrier. *sigh*
FFXIV fanart/copies (bad ones), 'cause copying doesn't require a brain, and I'm a fanboy.
(FINAL FANTASY XIV ©2010,2011 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. FINAL FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Holdings Co., Ltd. All material used under license.)
Those faces are looking really nice
My Sketchbook: Warning, it's image heavy. Twiggers "Learning to Draw" Sketchbook