I need help with this golloum drawing, its too sorry to paint as yet
This is where we started.
I thought I would post it here to get the thumb to show a change, it makes it more obvious.
Ok Fire away, help me out (please!)
Last edited by Lightship69; May 11th, 2011 at 03:53 PM. Reason: update
Short answer to all your problems here: construct a formal perspective of the figure. No need to get fancy - draw a figure made of balls, cylinders and boxes, but make sure it is in a correct perspective and matches its environment. That will give you the necessary guideline to take it further.
Oh Hey matey
How you doing? I thought you wern't talking to me because of the grippy thing in DaEvil1's potrrait thing. Which was a serious question by the way. I did try it with this one honest but it got kinda freaky and hard. But I shall persevere.
back to the image probs I did the loomis thing with the sticks and balls till I got the pose roughly where I wanted it and then fleshed him out, It seemed to work for me, is that not the right way to go? I just forgeot he was basically a hobbit in the past and had big feet and hands, the hands are good to go but his feet are a mess.
He's really, really flat...like if you looked at him from side view he'd be 4" thick. Mainly because you haven't considered him from a structural pov - as in how his skeleton works internally - rib cage, pelvis, femur/knee, etc. His feet are a problem because you don't understand the internal structure/anatomy of the foot yet and aren't using any reference (I'm guessing?). Same with the pectorals and sternal notch (where the variouos sternoid muscles attach and teh clavicles begin - I forget the correct term). The trapezius is too flat as well.
So try to construct him with a bit more dynamic and volumetric feel. I would definitely get someone to pose for you or sculpt him out. Also I would consider whether you want to show so much of the cavern environment or if the action of him putting on the ring is more important.
ha ha ha ha road kill gollum anyone!!?? Thanks Jeff youre right as usual.
you are right as usual, now I understand what arenhaus was on about, I positioned him with the loomis stick man thing and squashed him. try the tubes and squares thing ok.
I did use references for the body and such like, alas not one coherant image as well there isnt one. I cant find anything decent resource wise for legs and feet, I need to make something up I think from a few sources, unless anyone has anything on file that may be of use?
We shall try again I think and bin this one off, I shall keep you posted as they say, Thanks guys
Last edited by Lightship69; May 20th, 2011 at 06:55 PM.
Ok I hurtled off to throw something together, to see if I have the right idea, so have a look at this weird looking dude and tell me if you think proportionaly he is better.
Using the tubes bit dislocates poor gollums spine and I cant get the slightly insane pose I wanted, so I will do some more thumbs I think and see if I can make it happen.
I have seen several of your recent works and I think you are definitely improving with each one. I would just like to suggest that when using the cylinder and box method to construct a figure, that you think of the elements as being made of soft clay, rather than of hard, unyielding plastic. Also try to draw forms that resemble the body parts that they represent. In my experience, using shapes that are too regular in shape, hurt the overall organic effect.
Please forgive my crude reinterpretation of your idea. You should definitely get some good reference for the pose. I did not, and it shows. However, I was mainly trying to show the thought process, rather than accurate anatomical drawing. I hope you can make sense of all the mess of lines and I hope this helps, and apologies if you find this out of line.
Hey lightship, Javier done a great example there for you. for the slightly insane expression in his body, think about what hes thinking and how it would affect his pose.
Gollum has terrible posture as it is where his neck juts more forward and not up like a healthy person, his shoulders roll forward because of his neck but also because he tries to cradle the ring with his being.
Here's an explanation of exaggerating pose for animation which might be useful to you
Looking forward to seeing the finished picture
Act it out. That's the best way to create a storytelling pose. Put yourself in the character's shoes, feel how obsessed and protective he is of the ring, craving it even though he's already got it. Don't just think about it, do it. Get out of your chair and see what it feels like. If possible, get a photo of it, but either way don't lose that feeling as you work out the pose.
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Thanks for taking the time to look at this all of you! I really appreciate it, as for the above crits "out of line Javier!" mate this is in no way out of line ! this is exactly the help I want and need Thank you! Thank you! and once again etc etc.
I rather like what you have done with Gollum too, Hes a hard guy to do as his age is a factor and as others have said his posture is shot to hell, and as for how many marbles he has left rattling round in in his head is anyones guess, Lol this all has a bearing on the overall image of him.
Thanks for the input Yuzikoi thats useful and Nezumi your input is also welcome anytime, and to all my regular critters Thanks, and I will improve this never fear.
Last edited by Lightship69; May 20th, 2011 at 06:57 PM.
Ok Javier and my other kind critters
Here we go with the next attempts using the flixible clay pipes idea, I ended up with two poses that I like out of the fifteen or so that i tried, Lol
They seem to get past Jeffs depth issue and give a reasonable sort of pose, what do you think people? Does his body language give him a mad/ manic edge and also portray the craving/affection for the ring that I'm trying to get? I admit a lot of that comes from the face, but without the overall body language I wont get the look I'm after.
Last edited by Lightship69; May 20th, 2011 at 06:59 PM.
Looks good. Your drawing now has a much better illusion of form. However, you must not forget about the gesture and story you are trying to tell. As you are drawing you should consider gesture, form, line-quality, perspective, etc. etc. at all times and be mindful of incorporating them into the drawing you are making. Try to make each line you put down on paper count.
I would HIGHLY recommend the book "Drawn to Life" by Walt Stanchfield. It should be about £18.00. It does not really discuss drawing techniques, but rather it approaches drawing as a mental activity. How to approach drawing and sketching to tell a story. The book is filled with inspirational quotes and little gems of info about being an artist in general. Also, Walt was a lot better at explaining things like gesture, etc. etc. than I ever could be. Hope this helps.
Thanks very much matey, I downloaded a pdf and had a read and its very good! so I went on play.com and ordered volume one and two!!
There you go you see, advice can be costly !! ha ha ha ha
So if you think its improved I shall flesh one out a bit more and see what happens, thanks again for your time and assistance, and please keep it coming
Unless this is going to be a mature themed image, I would say go with the first of the revised sketches. It makes people uncomfortable when looking at someone's junk like in the 2nd. Even with pants.
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Nice revisions! I definitely like the first one best. More dynamic for sure and I think portrays how fixated and enamored he is with it better. The other once makes me think more of a curious chimp.
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I am now looking at a curious chimp in my minds eye with his junk hanging out craving affection from his ring!! I'm gonna need serious therapy after this one !! ROFL
Thank you so much for all the help people I shall post again soon with some improved thumbs of feet hands and head as I do them, as I think its gonna take me several revisions to get the expression and body language that I want.
Thanks very much for the input so far, its been very good and very useful.
Ok on with the images, this is the pose I am mostly happy with and so going for. All the images are roughs to enable me to get what i want when I do the final drawing prior to painting, so shred it if you want its going to get re-done anyway.
I know the eyes on the head are just not right yet, I need them bigger and rounder to give him a mesmerised look about him. On the whole though am I on the right lines ??
PLease crit and point out the errors of my ways!
Here we are with a version I can put paint on I think, any glaring anatomical howlers visible before I do?
Thanks to all that have helped bring him this far, I hope you can see where your input has helped
hi there my learned mateys, I hope youre all in fine fettle (jolly good shape or health! in other words).
I am posting again with an update if anyone has an opinion I would as usual be delighted to hear it.
I have been on with this off and on now since last post which was approx 2 weeks, The environment is totally made up and textures were samples from underground ice caves and wet limestone caves.
The water of the lake is made up as I couldnt find a decent reference for what I wanted.
The slate style slabsof stone are also made up by creating a flat plane in an incipid purple and adding cloud filters to it, blurring and wiping it and then painting on it to get the cracks in the stone. After that reduce the opacity to make it slightly transparent and then distort it to get the right angle, then stick it on a base colour.
After most of it was how it was meant to be the whole thing was then painted over to be as you see now.
The last thing to dowith the image would be to put a shaft of light through from top left to bottom right near his feet, he is holding the ring in the light to see the colour and sparkle etc.
This is where we are atso far (looks weird without a body but there you go, no hair yet either.
I am having trouble with the colour and texture of his face, Body specificaly, I need it darkish to light him where the light shaft hits but its driving me crazy.
Any ideas or help please!
Last edited by Lightship69; May 12th, 2011 at 09:35 AM. Reason: cant spell, and its a pet hate
Your image has improved by leaps and bounds. However, I must warn you against "spot rendering", that is to say rendering single parts to completion before others. Think of your image as a whole and work on it as such. No part is any more important nor less important than another. Try to stay away from Photoshop transformations and effects to achieve the look you want. Remember, careful observation and thought goes much further than you might think. One of my personal favorite interpretations of gollum is that of Tim Hildebrandt. You can really see his character in the illustration. Try to focus on what is important in your illustration to refine the image. The problems of rendering forms will fall into place on their own. Good Luck, hope this helps.
I think gollum is looking a little too chubby here. Gotta remember, the guy lives off fish. Thin him out a bit I'd say
Thanks for taking the time to comment
Javier - I know what you mean! one of the first artbooks that I ever bought was the "art of the brothers Hildebrandt by Ian summers" and the gollum image is in there. It was magical to look through that book, and I still get buzz from it now.
Anyway back to the image, I should have explained myself better (again! sigh) I was rendering the whole thing but I was struggling with the skin texture, so I scrubbed it off and just did the head to show you guys where I am.
For texture reference I am using stills and models from the film and just cant seem to nail it down.
So after srapping it off again I did this spot of just his head to show the problems. Sorry for muddying the waters again matey.
And yes I am very guilty of photoshoping the hell out of the background for tha sake of speed, I'm a bad boy I know, but I am impatient to see the finished thing - its a character flaw, like looking at the last chapter of a book for example. Its one of the many things I am working on in life, Too ambitious and too impatient or excited to see whats next.
I think the main problem with this image is that I am over reaching myself here, or stretching beyond my skill level. So the question I am asking is can anyone point me in a direction that will help or advise me on how to move this guy on with regard to skin texture.
The issue is that a light comes in from the above left of the guy and hits his right side, so by my reckoning it hits his hand with the ring in it, his face, parts of his other arm and chest.
I have some real issues to solve here with the lights and shadows, detail and abstrctions.
Julio - Ha ha I know where you are coming from mate and yes He will be positively anorexic in the final paint! (no offence to anyone who has that problem by the way, before I get hate mail)
I will now take any crits or advice that my audience wants to throw at me, and many thanks to all that take the time to have a go.
All the best to you .............
Last edited by Lightship69; May 20th, 2011 at 07:04 PM.
Er yes Jacob thanks for that, the light is a definate issue in the cavern, it is also a difficult sticking point. A shadow as you correctly pointed out in this environment is mostly blue with a hint of black in areas of deep shadow and this is also the reason why I havnt finished this image yet. I am over reaching my abilities again!! This over reach thing is turning out to be a very bad habbit of mine, but on the bright side its also a great learning oportunity. When I hit one of these brick walls and find that I can't do something, or if I cant get something in the image to the level I want I go back to fundamentals and then like in this image, I go back and look at lights and shadows again or whatever the problem is.
You see the problem is that the light is hitting his face is slightly from the top, its sort of split down his face and yet bright at the edge and I'm not good enough to do that yet so I have been hitting the thumbs again and again until I can consistently get what I want from the image.
This is sort of what I intend from the final image and where we are at the moment, this is kind of the light source we are dealing with but in the final image the light will be very weak as its underground and it is finding its way through from some sort of crystal deposit in the roof or some such thing. There should also be some sort of ambient light too so we can see his basic form.
Thanks for your comments mate and I shall post some more soon.
Last edited by Lightship69; May 18th, 2011 at 05:38 AM. Reason: I just can't write without mistakes any more !!
Ha ha ha thanks mate you are as always a star! I didnt mean anyone to comment on this image I just used it to show Javiers example in post No 8 and to explain the tubes thing when building a characters shape.
This image is far away on a back burner somewhere until i have the skills to make it what I want, and I will do it too but not yet. when I started this I hoped that I was better than I thought, LOL turns out I was a lot worse. So I went back to grinding my skills in a determined fashion.
no need to comment people just ignore it and let it sink into obscurity again, I will bring it back when I am ready, thanks.
all the best everyone