Hi, My name is Joseph Pais. I am currently looking for a artist for a graphic novel I am working on. I am looking for a 300 style of art work. If you are interested in submitting please include samples of your work. This is a Comics Fighting Cancer project. 100% of all proceeds will be donated towards cancer research.
all rates are negotiable. Should be around 75-150 pages of work. Could end up in too two volumes. No official deadline has been set.
Budget is set between $800-$1000. FOR 75 PAGES!!! UP TO $2000 FOR 150 PAGES!!!
We are also looking for a letterer as well.
Please visit our website.
Last edited by Black Snake Studios; August 27th, 2010 at 01:47 AM. Reason: should have been $800 not $600
To be specific I need a artist that pencils, inks and if at all possible colors as well. (Coloring is not a requirement)
I'm sorry bro but 75-150 pages for 600-1000USD just isn't enough.
Even the most seasoned artist working full time can only get about 1-2 pages done in 8-10hrs.
to give you an idea I'm doing a 24 page comic right now thats paying more than 2 times what your offering.
Expect to pay somewhere around 100USD per page.
incorrect? ill conceived? Don't get me wrong... I totally understand the whole starving artist/writer thing... but if your looking to start a project... you need investment. You are literally asking for some to work below USA's national minimum wage. If you want quality expect to pay a premium.
I hope you do find someone who can do this project at a speed which makes it profitable for them... but honestly I highly doubt it.
"Contrary to the belief of the layman, the essential of art is not to imitate nature, but under the guise of imitation to stir up excitement with pure plastic elements: measurements, directions, ornaments, lights, values, colors, substances, divided and organized according to the injunctions of natural laws. While so occupied, the artist never ceases to be subservient to nature, but instead of imitating the incidents in a paltry way, he imitates the laws."-Andre Lhote
Web, FineArt, Sketchbook
i just finished illustrating a 125-page graphic novel. it's now on its publishing stage. during production, i had to die to myself to produce quality artwork. ionic is right.
The point is that at $1000 for 150 pages you are asking people to work for about $6.50 per page. That's $6.50 for probably 10 hours work at minimum, since you want pencils, inks, and colors. Would you work for 65 cents an hour? I don't think so.
Expect to pay at least $30-50 a page just for inks. That's the cheap end. Most professionals I've seen get $60-100 a page, so Ionic's quote is correct.
13.33 a page. Takes a day for most guys to do a page, but, you're right, we should ask a few questions before going all negative.
What's the minimum wage out in your neck of the woods? Better question; what's the starting wage for most skilled laborers where you live?
Up where I live I think the minimum wage is over 10.00 -- so I'd pull down 80.00- the governments' cut a day -- let's say 65.00.
Since I'd have to draw nearly 5 pages a day to make the same income as a McJob why would anyone with actual exploitable art skills want to draw your project?
Seriously, what's the possible upside of working on such a large project for so little money?
I'll help by clearing away some of the answers that you might initially type up:
Exposure: Nope -- if you have so little starting money to pay for the art you cannot have a reasonable promotional budget to pay for the sort of advertising required to grant anything more than what can already be had for free via the internet.
Being published: Nope -- with so many affordable print on demand services available any artist is 30.00 away from owning a nice full colour collection of their work presented as they see fit and not have to worry about someone else owning such a large chunk of their work for so little as well.
Great work team: Nope -- unless you managed to get Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman or Frank Miller to write your project you won't have anyone who can sell a project and it's likely the writers and other members of the team are as unexperienced as any artist considering a low pay project.
Experience: Nope -- better for the young artist to take their time doing smaller projects and develop their skill set rather than work at such a pace that nothing worthwhile is accomplished.
So, what are you offering over the 13.33 a page for 75 pages that makes it work the time of a talented artist?
Considering that you generally get what you pay for, what quality and speed do you expect for your 13.33 a page?
Those are the only questions that come to mind at the moment. I look forward to your answers.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I have a few observations based on your answers.
I think it's laudable that you're turning any profits over to a charity, however, doing so at the expense of the admitted prime mover of your project is a dubious pursuit. How, for example, can the artist get a tax deduction for the income he isn't receiving because all the proceeds are going to a charity?
With your local minimum wage would buy two hours time for the rate you're paying the potential artist on this project. Again, most artists take at least a day to draw an average page, many need longer, few need less. Considering that drawing comics at a publishable level is a whole set of developed skills, I cannot understand how anyone would feel a fraction of a day's wage for unskilled labour is fair payment. It may be that you want to publish a 75-page story and only have 1 000.00, but the reality is most professional or near-professional quality artists can expect at least 50-100.00 a page for their efforts and it's far more reasonable for you to adjust your publishing plans downward than for a talented artist to work at a rate that barely covers the costs of the materials used to make the pages. Offer 1 000.00 for 10-20 pages and you will be paying something toward the industry standard for beginning publishers and you'll end up with an artist better able to dedicate their time to the project and you'll probably be offered a wider range of artists to choose from.
Wowio isn't a reasonable promotional device to compensate the artist for such a low page rate. Since it's a distribution device, any product promotes the publisher as much if not more than the artist and any revenue would stream toward the charity.
Diamond will only agree to solicit the book if it meets their minimum standards, which puts the quality burden on the artist -- who is only getting 13.33 a page -- to ensure Diamond will place the book in the catalogue. Further, the book will need to reach minimum orders so that Diamond will actually distribute the product. Retailers will order based on a postage stamp sized image of the cover barring any ads bought inside the catalogue. That cover, I would guess, is also drawn by the person earning 13.33 a page, if not, then you're promoting a different artist with the cover solicitation. The 100 or so stores that are well-financed enough to take a risk on a 75-page OGN are your target customer base and they're likely very picky about what they order -- again putting the burden of success on the artist you're paying 25% of a day's minimum wage per page.
Here's a comics publishing truism: Great art sells the first issue and great writing sells the rest. OGNs are essentially single-sale products -- the art is more important to sell this to your actual customer; the retailer in this case.
I have to disagree with your stance on experience. There is something to be learned by producing a vast amount of work in a short period of time, that's something better learned after the fundamentals are fully understood. The young artist would be better off taking their time developing their skills developing their work toward a level where the pay is more reasonable than desperately producing pages to try and live off the 13.33 this pays. Also, resumes have no meaning in comics -- everything is portfolio-based.
The vast majority of undrafted players are never heard about; they end up on the practice squad for a few years and then leave the sport. Few make it to the starting team and fewer still do so with noticeable success -- that's why we actually hear about the undrafted or walk-on success stories.
That aside, it is true, you might win the sub-small publisher lottery and find the young artist with talent, skill, determination and ignorance of their own value and desperation for any income who will accept the 13.33 a page rate, produce pages at a quick enough rate, impress Diamond, retailers and digital download consumers enough to make this project a go, but I'd place the odds as even less than an undrafted player becoming a sport superstar.
Further, if you get that talented artist and give them 2-years to draw the 75 pages at a page every 9 days you have to realise the artist is far more likely to find better paying work and just stop -- or even lose interest and stop. When the pay is so low there really is no recourse for you a publisher if this happens.
If you're really willing to wait up to two years for the artist to finish a 75-page OGN, why can't you increase the budget for the art to more reasonable and competitive? Why not offer 100.00 a page, but only ask for a page every 9 days an only agree to pay at that speed? It's far less likely you'll lose your artist to another project and you'll increase the quality of your project.
As it is, your current pay rate spells doom for your project since every required point to determine success weights upon the skill and dedication of your artist.
I have to agree, your budget really is kinda low.
But I think there was a sticky some time back saying that we shouldnt jump on clients just because we don't like their rates. If ya don't like his post, then just dont comment on it. Though I still get the point. Working as an artist isn't always fun, it's a "real" job just like any other job, maybe even harder at times.
Anyways, I wish you luck. You might find somebody that's just starting out and is willing to do the job.
Honestly, here are better ways to generate money for charities than comics publishing. A nicely designed T-shirt on cafe press is likely to generate more funding than a 75-page OGN subsidized by the artist not getting a decent page rate.
If you have to decide between paying the artist a decent rate and doing the project, especially one of this size, I think it's time to reconsider the project.
The walk-on player to superstar notion was already absurd when you introduced it, so it's really not helping by stretching it even further, especially when you consider those undrafted players still get paid the league minimum wage (325 000.00 in 2010) and you're paying less than your local minimum wage per page.
* * *
Eric-Anthony -- the main reason people like me pop into these threads is to educate those artists just starting out that deals like these are actually bad deals for any artist at any experience level. The company unable to pay a decent fee for artwork is almost always the one least able to make the project worthwhile. Artists are skilled craftsmen and need to be paid as such. The charity aspect is an odd aspect but doesn't change much.
I think most people would agree to stay away from commenting on lower paying gigs, but there should be some standards on what's considered low paying and an insulting offer.
I should add, if Joseph posted this in the collaborations & non-paying forum and mentioned he was willing to cough up 1000.00 to cover the artists materials on a 75-page OGN with all proceeds going to cancer research no one would say a negative word about this.
If you ever get a chance watch episode 209 of Chris carter's Millennium, Jose Chung's Doomsday Defense.
The episode riffs on Scientology -- it posits a fake religion called Selfosophy; absolute positive thinking and rejection of everything and anything negative. Near the end of the episode a Selfosophist named Smooth is fleeing from the authorities and ends up at the edge of the roof of a very tall building and is preparing to jump quite a distance to next roof as the hero, Frank Black, shows up.
Frank: Hey, don't try it! You'll never make it across.
Smooth: (turns to look, SMILING )
Not with that negative attitude I won't!
Smooth jumps. . .
. . . and falls to his death.
Last edited by rpace; August 26th, 2010 at 10:31 PM. Reason: correcting quotes
If I was going to add something, it would be that if gathering more money for the artist isn't possible, then it's certainly possible to scale back the idea so that the pay makes more sense.
While it's certainly possible that an artist that has been personally touched by cancer in some way might feel strongly enough to get involved (or an artist in another country where the rate works out much better), I'd think the size of the project might be daunting for many who might otherwise be inclined to help out. That's a fairly lengthy commitment.