I'm interested in doing an illustration with a card format (like Magic: The Gathering etc.) with a fantasy feel to it. I chose "Back Stab" as it's not my usual choice of illustration and I feel I need to expand. Comfort zones are a bad place to stay, and I'm having a really hard time finishing things up.
I am constantly realizing how planning time is never wasted time.
Anything goes and I really don't think I have feelings to hurt.
Thumbnails have been moved to my second post in the interest of updating my thumbnail on the forum page.
Last edited by Quigleyer; April 29th, 2010 at 02:23 PM. Reason: Update Title
My SketchBook http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=139784
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=192127"Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."-John Huston, Director
First emphasizes fight, four next ones dagger, last one backstab. I would pick the last one.
Be so kind and have a look at my Fantasy Warrior WIP, I did some major changes to the head and would very much like some opinions.
#4 has the tension of a secret backstab that is going to happen....sucka ain't gonna see it comin'. Gives me that tension like when you watch a scary movie and wanna shout "no! don't go that way!" but it won't do anything cause it's a movie.
#6 has the aftermath effect. You definitely know what happened, and it has nice staging. There is some storytelling to it because we want to know how it happened.
For me it is between these two. Personally, I'm leaning toward #4 because of the card game application. It is an action you want to use, not one that has already happened.
I think #6 has the best perspective and conveys the whole "backstab" theme the most effectively.
Thanks for the replies guys!
So far, based on the four replies, it looks like number 6 is the way I'm leaning. I'll leave this going for a bit and check it later when I get more replies. When I look at them now it does seem to be the clearest "Back Stab."
I'm concerned number 4 could be confused with "Stealth". Yeah?
Also concerned the first one is too obvious, or cliche. Thoughts?
Tell me what you guys think. Hope to hear from more of you!
Image originally on first post:
Last edited by Quigleyer; April 29th, 2010 at 02:24 PM.
I thought 6 was the best because it was more subtle than all the rest, but had the most impact. The first thought that comes to mind when I see it is the guy died without even knowing what hit him, and the assassin or whatever is just walking away calmly, like it was nothing. And overall the perspective and tonal contrast is the most appealing.
If I were to order my top three though it would be 6,1,4. 1 does give a better sense of the action, it's just that I prefer the aftermath idea more.
I would go for #4, because there is one thing not right in #6 imho.
Why would one person walk calmly away with leaving the knive/dagger in the back of the person he just stabbed? There should be a very good reason for him to leave his weapon behind, I know it sounds silly in the first place but it just doesn't seem to be very logical.
Sorry for my crappy English
Looking for tips and tricks
5 and 6 for me
4 looks more like "assasin" to me, while the backstabber in 5 looks normal
shhhh, rule of coolThere should be a very good reason for him to leave his weapon behind, I know it sounds silly in the first place but it just doesn't seem to be very logical.
I just took a break to post this.
But sometimes I also draw stuff
6 in my opinion - of all of them it had the most impact on me, and it was something different too. Coming across something different that hasn't been done often, not to mention has great potential is quite uncommon these days. The other five are great, but nothing that hasn't been thought of before. Sometimes being quite blatant in the definition of "backstab" is somewhat refreshing.
My thumbnails are more or less abstractions to present different ways to solve the problem. Generally I'd hear "do more like number X" etc. Planning time is never wasted time.
Thanks guys. I think I'm sticking with 6 now that I've got more of you looking. This doesn't mean my mind can't be changed, and all of your opinions count- so if you've got one give it to me!
Does this bother anyone else? Using the "Mob Method of Art Direction" .
My scanner just got really terrible. Scans looked much better last time and I'm a little bit concerned...
Oh well. here are some sketches. Exploring positioning, size comparisons, poses, and still some other ideas. Numbered not necessarily as completed sketches, but so they're easier to talk about on here. Tell me what you think (and if you truly disapprove of these sketches feel free to voice your opinion):
For something like a trading card, I suppose you're going for excellent readability. You definitely have that in thumb nr. 6, as others have said (really like thumb nr. 1 as well, save that one for another drawing! ). So, you need to not obscure that idea/composition.
Great to see you try out a lot of things, but in my opinion the original thumb works better than the new sketches. I would say it's because of the anonymity of both victim and killer. I quite like how the victim's face isn't visible. Just another job done. You've tried experimenting with the killer's silhouette; I think I prefer him to just be walking away (but maybe the silhouette in thumb 6 is a bit boring, perhaps show a leg or arm, break it up a little).
Well, looking good! I'm excited to see where you're going with this. Cool topic
There's always a certain magic done in an original thumb that beats the pants out of sketches. I guess it's the looseness of the moment or something.
I can agree with you there. I do like that both faces are obscured as well.
I'm trying to devise a way I can shoot references to match what I want for my light source. I need a light inside the closed in alley, which I'm currently making a sketchup model for.
Speaking of Sketchup models.
Wish My friends were around to model. I'd like to get started. I'll probably do some detail on the "buildings", though I plan to "fog" them quite a bit and they probably won't be noticeable.
One thing to remember is that if you're doing a backstab, you'd want it to be at an upward angle. Not only would you get more force, but it's something you don't want anyone to see coming, so it wouldn't be a showy overhand move. The first sketch in your most recent post shows that pretty well, although I'd make the dagger quite a lot smaller.
The Nezumi Works Sketchbook - Now in progress
My online portfolio
"Skill is the result of trying again and again, applying our ability and proving our knowledge as we gain it. Let us get used to throwing away the unsuccessful effort and doing the job over. Let us consider obstacles as something to be expected in any endeavor; then they won't seem quite so insurmountable or so defeating." - Andrew Loomis
As I take these references I begin to worry about the size of the dead character. I may have to move the view in the Sketchup model forward significantly, but I hope no changes will have to be made to the model itself. I'll begin drawing this shortly, after I decide on a reference that fits, and what the ones of the visible face add and detract, since it was one topic of discussion earlier on that the deceased and killer both be kind of anonymous. I like the one where you only see his eye.
The photos are a little grainier than I'd have liked- I didn't realize the only reason I was picking up anything with the low light and no flash was that I had my ISO jacked up significantly. Life's hard.
I'm also going to have to fake the lighting a little bit. I was thinking there could be a lantern or something by him, but I chose the "safe route" and decided to light from above, as I was thinking the tunnel would have to have some kind of overhead light for my illustration to work.
Well, let's hope it works! I am, at least. For anyone reading this- come by later... it might be worth it if I Epic Fail!
EDIT: OH yeah, I'm going to have to flip the photos.
Last edited by Quigleyer; April 24th, 2010 at 03:35 PM.
Hi, I would prefer seeing dead guy on the floor instead of barrel. I feel it just complicate things up.
I understand that thinking, and now I need to think about that some more.
I think that, since my thumbnail had the character slouched over, that I might just need to stay with that. The idea here was approval of a thumb, which I think I received, and would like to not steer to far from the path laid before me.
I have taken time to do a quick "drawing". Digital drawing is weird at times and I often just use larger values to define things in Photoshop before I begin painting in Painter.
For this I'm worried the knife is too far up. I made the original format really "short" first and probably need to update the size, giving it more height. This was why I thought it was okay to do this at the moment.
Preliminary values and composition:
I liked the angle between the dead guy and the assassin a lot more in your thumbnail, it created better movement and was just a better compositional choice overall. I also don't think that it looks as good when the door extends so far towards the center. The dead guy is looking pretty good though!
Good call. I didn't really even see that until you mentioned it.
I might leave the dead guy. I really like the angle, but the relationship between the two will be different. I'm going to change the tunnel thing into more of a room (like some of the tunnels I saw when I googled "stone tunnel" in images) with an arched exit, but I'll make it smaller and move it more forward. I think this will get get the whole light source thing easier to manage as well.
I'll update later. I can't believe I'm up this early. Must take the girlfriend to work... ugh...
If it were me, I'd center the dead guy and brighten the daylight in the background to create more contrast with the figure of the assassin. Personally, I always try to compose along the diagonals of the picture. (JPEG attached).
Now that's useful.
I'm going to be going with that, thanks Giacomo.
I tried to move the cloaked guyer close to 1/3 the canvas and am beginning to wonder if it looks terribly off. I think the dead guy (and I guess whole thing) could be moved down some more.
Caught me in an odd stage of painting, so don't mind anything that's going on. I was in the midst of warm and cool separations when I first read Giacomo's post and have now begun to work on it again.
Nice progress! Color play seems to be coming along. I still wish the door was thinner for tension, but looking good.
It would be nice to have the cloak billowing, getting the sense that the figure is walking away.
You're right it just works better.
I'm also doing this with it now. This is pretty much what I'm going to be painting, though I would like to throw in a few more things to make this more of a "storage room." I guess now it really could be any room, but I kind of want to get it the way I intended it to be.
I just can't tell if this is a good idea or not.
Really sloppy, but it's reading decently at a really small size. Big value shapes...
Tell me what you think. I'm probably just going to be painting for a while now without any updates, but I'll check to see if anyone said anything every other break.
So this worked out for the best. Light from the doorway and light form the torch leave a spot in the middle where it's dark... where the dagger is. If I change the perspective of the dagger I can get light from the torch reflecting off of it... and so I've got the darkest against lightest value at the focal point. Complete happy accident. But really, I should have thought of it earlier, as it was really obvious once I started working.
Last edited by Quigleyer; April 28th, 2010 at 09:42 PM.