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|Illusion of Space and Atmosphere||1||Do Assignment|
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Why are you hurt about this? WTF do you close every thread you don't agree on? we are discussing civilized, and ok, even jason had his say in there. So whats the big deal? So I don't get what is your problem? I really think people should take away your moderation rights, if you don't agree, then dont read the thread.
This is the thread I'm talking about. Lets hope you won't close this one too, cause I have a right to diss you off, even if you don't agree with it.
Last edited by GriNGo; March 19th, 2010 at 03:46 AM.
if the ones with power doesnt agree with you...will use their power.
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. Local drama four times a year. International drama-ongoing.
Go vote in the who should be a new mod thread. Those people have the ability to see who is a troll, who is a fake account created just for voting, who is a fake account created just for complaining, etc. How do they do it? (sarcasm. I know how they do it. Don't care)((and frankly, I have a fake account, but don't abuse it. Go figure))
Last edited by arttorney; March 19th, 2010 at 02:25 AM.
So, lets recap. The thread was closed because it was a random and somewhat inappropriately placed thread that turned into a discussion about whether or not someone deserves to win a scholarship, with a bunch of stuff thrown in about German artists being given magical free money (which, to the best of my knowledge sounds like absolute bullshit).
A lot of people join these forums and of those just a few are dedicated enough to progress to a certain level, saying that because they worked hard and got good, they shouldn't have an opportunity they obviously want is disrespectful and flat out dumb.
Jason said something in there for one reason, because some guy was rambling about people (and in the context of that thread that was basically Jason) being materialistic. Everyone knows that for most people, pursuing art means you'll have to sacrifice and work your ass off. Scholarships are a big break for an artist and any serious artist would be dumb not to go for it when given that opportunity. How anyone can say that scholarships are a bad thing is beyond me, good education costs money, that's fact, that's life, anything else is fantasy.
If I was a mod I'd closed that thread as soon as people started naming "less deserving" artists and given anyone who did a warning for good measure.
hey hey, take it easy now, i believe the main purpose of that thread was not dissing out german artists. And dudes, the world is bigger than Europe & the US. Line "proved" that his black metal musician friends were recieving welfare - so even if not all artists benefit from it, it's clearly a better situation for people living there than for people living in South America or Malaysia for 300$ monthly pay, normal 8-10 hour jobs. Do people in your countries earn that much flipping burguers? I don't think so. That thread was more a discussion about who needs help the most: if somebody that's already VERY good, or someone who isnt that good, but has lots of potential. If you think people were dissing certain individuals, then you just didn't fucking read, or understood whatever you wanted to undertand.
Last edited by GriNGo; March 19th, 2010 at 02:33 AM.
The thread itself wasn't offensive, and the discussion wasn't inappropriate or derailed (other than the fact that it wasn't about the OP's self-advertising anymore, and the whole German government side-discussion). Some people said Alpenfleiger didn't need the scholarship as much as others did (which is why they most likely voted for someone else) and that is a valid opinion. Nobody however suggested that Alpen should have had his scholarship taken away for whatever reason.
No system is perfect? That goes without saying, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss on how the system could be improved in the future, or that we can't express our dislike over how the system works today. Having said that, there was only one person in that thread who seemed to be truly butthurt:
Originally Posted by Arshes NeiWhy are people so...I dunno butthurt over who wins it?Irony.Originally Posted by Arshes NeiHey you know what, why do they give out scholarships to left handed people, why can't they be more democratic in every scholarship that's handed out? That's just how it works. You hunt for any scholarship you can and try to get it. You win some you lose some. You can't expect everything to be some fancy Democratic setup. That includes the TAD ones. There is no perfect system. It's all run by humans who have different tastes and ideals and that's just how it is.
Just sad and ugly. Gonna close it because people just have to twist something because of other inadequacies in life.
Last edited by Armonah; March 19th, 2010 at 02:41 AM.
What was the purpose of that thread? Was it
A: a discussion of someones worthyness of getting a break any developing artist that is serious about improvement would want.
B: whether or not human civilization should use a trading system based around a common currency and whether or not the people should give their services away for free instead, magically creating a world of love and happiness.
C: whether or not German artists recieve scholarships or financial aid to aid in their creation of cultural content.
D: a plea for a vote.
E: A meaningsless ramble on all of the above
I'd say Arshes did one thing wrong, not closing it at first sight. I mean, start calling people out for pursuing their best interest in a free-for-all competition is just low, and I'm feeling like I am furthering the argument by responding, so I'll just shut up...
The discussion was just that, derailed and inappropriate in many ways.
Last edited by kab; March 19th, 2010 at 02:45 AM.
If that's (last Gringo post) about my post, then you're right. I didn't read everything. Here's why:
Local drama- every three months we have to start acting like a bunch of bitches on CA for no apparent reason. I'm kind of tired of it.
International drama- lots of complete jackasses want to kill each other over lame things like religion and national boundaries and, at least for me, that puts a thing like a few hundred bucks into perspective. Hence do not care about the scholarships.
IanE - I kinda draw better than you, so I think you should devote more time to that.
RAB - It was a D that turned into an A. The rest is you trying to look smarter.
Arttorney - my post was more about RAB's first reply. Anyways, i don't think the original thread was people getting pissed, or international hatred or something. it was a civilized discussion... do go read it.
Actually, it was D until post three or so, when you felt you had to throw someones name in there, stating that they were less deserving of getting a scholarship because you thought he was good enough to get a job at his current skill level. If you think that someone is more deserving, that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. But I can't imagine why you felt it was necessary to point him out as being less deserving. I just want to point out the fact that outside of the level of his work and his country of residence, you probably know nothing about Algen's situation, financial or personal. I would say it is in very poor etiquette to talk about people deserving this and that with such a limited knowledge of the situation. But to each his own, I guess... I have no stake in who gets the scholarship, just stating an opinion, that that kind of discussion was inappropriate, unecessary and disrespectful to someone who after all has no advantage in the competition other than the rewards of hard work and dedication, to his work and obviously to this community.
Last edited by kab; March 19th, 2010 at 03:12 AM.
Uh, no, I was just explaining my reasons why I voted for Yinteck, NOT why Algen shouldn't deserve it. Go read again. I really don't care about Algens personal situation - his work seems to show that he has gotten over it anyhow. He's a fine example of a hard working artist. But yeah, I kinda think other people are also AS HARDWORKING as he is, in less fortunate circumstances. Wanna come live in a 3rd world country for a couple of years? Could you survive our circumstances (yinteck's, mines, etc)?
kab, threads don't need to be closed because you want to decide what people are allowed to talk about. I dont think Gringo's reaction is necessary (with all the cursing an all... lock is imminent) but it is somewhat annoying when a few moderators go a power trip and just close any thread that isnt going their way.
So if you were a mod, I think you should look up to those without huge egos like Elwell and others, I dont see him lock threads that often.
I've read it, multiple times, and it's still offensive towards Algenpfleger.
"I'd rather vote for Yinteck, than for algenpfleger, you know why? Cause algenpfleger already could be WORKING in some company/freelance with the quality of work he already makes, YINTECK still needs that push to make his work become stellar. I prefer to help one who REALLY NEEDS HELP, then kiss ass all the time. And don't get me started with the 1st world /3rd world issues..."
You are already ranting here, saying that one is more worthy than another, with no real reason to believe so other than geographical location, bringing about a discussion on someones worthyness based on a severely limited amount of knowledge.
I might be a spoiled Norwegian, but atleast I don't go around ranking people based on their location in the world according to stereotypes. You can work as hard as you want, but unless you give people respect, you won't be treated with respect. Take a look at this thread and see how you come across to a mod who is doing her job. You say that it is your right to diss her, well, you are wrong about that. Like Jason has said repeatedly, this forum does not give you the right to do anything, you do not have freedom of speech or action on here. Instead, if you abide by it's rules and play nice, you are allowed to stay and partake in a community of artists and creative people who share knowledge and respect. I suggest you think about that fact and just be happy that you weren't hit flat in the head with the banhammer for making this thread in the first place, there are a million forums and mods out there who would have done so in a heartbeat.
Z Warrior: it's not about what I, or any of the mods, want to have discussed, it is whether or not the mods let a discussion of someone's socalled worthyness that is rapidly becoming heated go on without taking action. The mods on CA generally do a damn good job of keeping personal attacks of any nature to a minimum, and Elwell is a shining example of that. If you have a problem with a mod, take it up with them via PM instead of making a thread calling them out. I'm sure they appreciate the input if you tell them in a civilized way and you might actually do some good for the forums instead of stir up additional drama.
Over and out...
Last edited by kab; March 19th, 2010 at 03:50 AM.
Culo - 17 posts. Nuff said.
Blighted Thread - This won't survive a day I'm sure.
Zwarrior - You read my mind man.
Kab- What sterotype did I talk about? The "stereotype" that Algen's work is already PRO LEVEL? I never discussed his worthiness or anything related! STFU about that. Everything else you say is pure bla bla. so whatever.
Last edited by GriNGo; March 19th, 2010 at 03:54 AM. Reason: cause i can
I didn't get to comment before it was locked, I was working up to it, trying to get a feel for what everyone was saying before I came in.
I'm not trying to be inflammatory when I say this but I think people seriously need to reconsider their priorities. This goes a little beyond that particular thread as I have seen threads in the past that seem to share the same tone. We as aspiring artists need to understand what we're getting into and what it takes to pull it off with marginal success. Some people just don't seem to get it.
It would be disingenuous for me to point the finger at others while acting like I am above it, so I want to say that I'm not. As much as I hate it sometimes, I have a better job than most for someone my age with no more than a high-school degree. The reason I wasn't able to sign up for the art department was because instead of taking advantage of such an opportunity, I've spent my hard earned dollar on shit I don't need. My priorities are completely out of wack. I realize this. I know that I could pay my way for at least a semester if I had thought about my future instead of temporary happiness.
I see people putting themselves, maybe due to naivety, into situations they don't need to be. Much like how I put myself in a bad position. I'm gonna quote an example.
And I'm not picking on the guy who said this because I think there are a lot of people around here in a similar situation and I would like to address you all.I've got plenty of damn bills to pay, a dental situation that's eating away my savings from my tech support job (for an incredibly crappy, somewhat corrupt company) to a point of near financial ruin, a wife to support in addition to figuring out a way out of it all. I've moved 900 miles across the country twice in the past two years, have had to buy 2 cars, and am still without any type of insurance in spite of my efforts.
Firstly, disregarding the statement "a wife to support" because she needs to support herself, but why get in a long-term or very serious relationship knowing full well that you might not be able to stick around to enjoy it? I know there are various rationalizations but the bottom line is that none of us are in the position to settle down yet. No wonder you need money so bad you're having to support two people instead of one. And it's your own decision to be in that position. It's not Jason Manley's fault, it's not the economy's fault or George Bush's fault or Barack Obama's fault. You chose to get involved with someone without the means to back it up. This is what I am talking about with priorities.
It's not heartless, or cold, or emotionless to be intelligent about major life decisions like getting married. If it's true love it can wait, and if the person is any bit bright they will understand. Hold off on marriage, chase your dreams because ,hey, they're your dreams not hers and then figure out a way to make it work once you have a solid career.
And I could go on all night about other things like having fifty pets or brand new computers. But hopefully you guys get what I am saying by now. It's not all about wasteful spending either but about wasteful decisions.
Think really really really hard about what you want. If you want to be an artist then that's going to have to be at the top of your list. Don't look to other people for what you want. Everything you do that doesn't help you achieve that goal is just another weight. I know that's going to sound really cold to you guys because you're all usually a bunch of sweethearts. But it's not fair to drag other people along with you and it's not fair to yourself. You just have to start getting things in order and know what exactly you want out of life. We all need to.
"Astronomy offers an aesthetic indulgence not duplicated in any other field. This is not an academic or hypothetical attraction and should require no apologies, for the beauty to be found in the skies has been universally appreciated for unrecorded centuries."
The fact that you simply assume that one "needs" it more than the other based on the fact Algen is German, while Yin is from Malaysia... Which is what I got from your shouting and ranting on about "first/third world country issues" or whatever.
If you think mutual respect and reason is "bla, bla, bla" then that's your loss, trust me. And for this being locked, Arshes Nei has been reading this thread since it was opened, no doubt having a grand old time
Thanks man, love this. This is the type of replies Arshes Nei doesn't want us mortals to discuss. It's too hurtful and full of hate, and jealousy. We definitley are bad people, who don't deserve to discuss anything.Think really really really hard about what you want. If you want to be an artist then that's going to have to be at the top of your list. Don't look to other people for what you want. Everything you do that doesn't help you achieve that goal is just another weight. I know that's going to sound really cold to you guys because you're all usually a bunch of sweethearts. But it's not fair to drag other people along with you and it's not fair to yourself. You just have to start getting things in order and know what exactly you want out of life. We all need to.
Nope, I based my decision to vote for Yinteck cause he's clearly not there yet, and "needs" the help... but on the other hand Algen, well just check out his work. And at the beggining of the post I think you forgot to read that i said "anybody can vote for whoever he wants". So stop kissing Arshes Nei's ass.
Can't we all just get along?
Whether or not you were taking location into account (which I am sure you were by the way you keep mentioning "third world this and that"), it all cooks down to the fact that you were being an asshole when pointing out someone like that, and your inecessary naming of Algen in there turned that thread into a personal attack on him more than anything, which should've been closed a lot earlier than it was.
Location IS IMPORTANT for these types of situations (scholarships). I'm pretty sure if you came from an underpriviledged situation, you would say the same. But since you don't then whatever. It was no personal attack, Jason would've closed the thread if he though it was. We know how he is. He doesn't tolerate. I initially replied to the thread cause certain fellows were like "that's not fair Yinteck! Why the heck should i vote for you and not for algen heh?" And a rather interesting discussion started. You don't know how to read english, that's it, your ranting is based on your misunderstanding. Stick to norwegian. Well anyways, good night. enough being pissed off for a day.
Last edited by GriNGo; March 19th, 2010 at 04:28 AM.
When Jason posted the discussion was still in it's infancy, I'm not saying your post was an attack in itself, but it was surely unnecessary. It became a discussion about whether or not Algen was worthy of the scholarship, that is an attack at him, even if the reason why he wouldn't be was his skill and location.
And I am not saying Arshes handled that thread in a good way, however, the discussion was not constructive and was headed towards ugly, and this sure isn't the way to adress your issues with the mod-squad.
And I think I read English just fine, thank you. If you want to argue with me regarding my english or anything else, feel free to send me a PM, but don't throw it in here to derail this fantastic thread of yours.
There's a difference between ranting and making an argument, you starting this thread sure doesn't fall in the last category.
Last edited by kab; March 19th, 2010 at 04:32 AM.
Scholarships are always awarded based on merit -- that's why people have to send in portfolios to get them? This was clearly not a needs based scholarship since there was a public poll with only their artwork and no financial/personal information about the applicants. Whoever's best gets it. Simple as that, and no need to go around whining 'cause someone's good.
Gringo if you want to have a normal discussion about the Scholarships and how to help the other members who canīt afford it but shows potential with the limited resources they have because of several reasons. You could have pm arshes nei and ask to re-open the thread. And not to diss her in public.
Itīs different to say what can be improved ,than to go over to algenpfleger and to compare him with other nominates on the situations they live on , where you exactly donīt know about ,what they have been gone through.
So what can be done to help members without professional training?
-you can help to improve the reference and ressource section ! Organized Knowledge to give back ,is one of the most important thing for artists.
-the mentor section could be renewed , iīm sure there can be a way to bring more to it again than now
-look what Mr.Delicious does with his dagger team ,tons to learn from his lifestream!
-Contests where wacom tablets,software .portfolio reviews and learning books can be a prize
To help those people with limited resources, is how to help this site to grow. And to show respect to other people around you , as well.
Last edited by Cerasela; March 19th, 2010 at 04:55 AM.
And as a side note it's incredibly disrespectful and crass to talk about another artist like that.