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Jazz: There are a billion and one ways to show people your work (there are whole sites dedicated to that ) Also people post these on their private pages..soooo that means only a very finite amount of people get to see it...want people to see your work....use links.
In any case Fb is bat shit crazy....ever since I found out people knew when I was taking a crap from my Fb notifications page I stopped using it.
Personally, i don't really put up art on facebook, it's more of a network thing. And whatever bad in that site, ignore. D:
Interesting that some of the other people posted here said that they haven't had their semi-nude paintings removed. Maybe the mod was just strict? It happens. It could happen anywhere.
it's perfectly reasonable to allow posting photos like that and ban art, containing nudity
on the fourth day of glitchmas my painter™ gave to me
four random crashes, three broken brushes, two system hangups & one corrupted workspace
this thread offends me. too much usage of the word "nudity".
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
--- Frank Herbert, Dune - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear
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Now right off the bat I can tell you that under these terms probably a good 77% of pictures on facebook should be removed. Children under 13 are not permitted. That's what...7th grade? They start teaching human growth and development at 3rd grade at least? So the impressionable youths we're concerned about are starting at age 13 right? I'd say your average 13 year old can figure out how to use a TV remote wouldnt you say? There is much worse on there, or the rest of the internet for that matter. But I digress, lets focus on Facebook. I work in higher education and I've seen the facebook pages of a lot of my students workers. Most of them are pics at parties or bars. Alcohol is a drug right? You can see it right in the pictures. Or what about the barrage of inappropriate slutty halloween costumes that we just got? Or all the girl on girl drunk shots? These are some how more appropriate for "kids" than a nude painting? I think what happened to Kelly is a case of the system going too far just in case. Like how we have braille on drive up ATM machines.Children under 13 years old are not permitted access to Facebook. In addition, parents of children 13 years and older should consider whether their child should be supervised during the child's use of the Facebook site.
Despite Facebook's safety and privacy controls, Facebook cannot guarantee that the site is entirely free of illegal, offensive, pornographic or otherwise inappropriate material, or that its members will not encounter inappropriate or illegal conduct from other members. Consequently, you may encounter such content and conduct. You can help Facebook by notifying us of any nudity, pornography, harassment or unwelcome contact by clicking on the "Report" link located on pages throughout the site. Facebook will use its best efforts to review reports made through this site reporting tool within 24 hours and remove any content that is deemed to have violated the Statement of Rights and Responsibilities. If warranted Facebook will also warn or disable the user responsible for posting the abusive content. Where complaints about nudity, pornography, harassment or unwelcome contact are made by independent email to email@example.com, Facebook will acknowledge receipt of the complaint and begin to address it within 24 hours. Facebook will respond to the reporter within 72 hours of receiving the email complaint to inform them of the steps Facebook has taken to address it.
I'm sure the actions taken by facebook are more to prevent it from being shutdown for kiddy porn than anything else. Most young users dont have the where with all to not put up pics that are potentially dangerous in that regard. Shame and common sense are endangered species now a days. I dont think that nude paintings should be taken down if pics like those above are allowed. Those are perfectly wankable pics for a 13 year old, or even a dirty 60 year old. So what's the difference.
Good god those links are depressing! Now I can't even put up a profile pic of myself without the fear that some creepy guy will archive it on a website and jack off to it later. A lot of those girls are just dressed in normal tank tops and posing for normal photos. agghhhhhhhhh. Sometimes I hate the internet.
I have a lot of friends who live all over the country, so in a perfect world I'd love to be able to upload all of my nude figure drawings to Facebook without the silly puritanical "ooooOOooh! But think about the children" police freaking out about it, but I'd ALSO love to be able to upload a photo of myself and my friends at the beach, chilling in our bikinis, without fear that it might leak out onto a softcore porn site somewhere where I have no control of it.
Ugh. I guess I'm just asking too much.
I thought there was an option that let you choose who could view your pictures, just like who you let view your profile. If that's the case, wouldn't that stop said creepy people or small children from viewing the images? If you show them publicly, however, I guess you're in for all sorts of mischief from random stupidheads
Also, just read that article about the teacher... I wonder how she's doing now. Better and still doing what she loves in a more open-minded environment hopefully.
hmm. I had a similar thing happen with FB over the weekend. I thought someone had stumbled across my stuff and reported it, but maybe FB had some sort of mass check/cull? The weird thing is that there is no nudity in any of the pics I've got up there, just suggestiveness... I just ignored it and reposted!
A lot of people (me included) use facebook for business networking rather than social, so it's irritating, but then I don't think anyone who's going to like my stuff is going to be put off by a content warning.
goddamn morality police!
bleupencil, Yes, there is a privacy setting and I thought it was to keep creeps and young kids out also... maybe some creeps got in by accident?
I'm actually most upset by the school that fired this art teacher!!! WTF is this???????!!!!!!! This is teaching censorship to young people. Get em' while their young and narrow their sponge like brains while you can, is this their theory??? So, wrong, so, stifling!
To All artist's: Don't let anyone censor your work! Grow, learn, study and share your work with your friends and other artist's, it will help you to learn.
CraigD, I read the story too and tell me what you remember, what I remember is that the only reason they fired her and not the other teacher's on the trip was because she simply read the museum descriptions out loud describing Rodin's nude? She wore flip flops to school? I found the article very vague and if anyone has read anything else pass it along. I really think they just wanted to get rid of a teacher who made $56k. Also any conversation can be taken out of context and be made to sound filthy. We will never really know in this instance what really went down, it's all hearsay at this point and I feel this teacher of thirty years should have been given her fare say in what really happened, the true circumstance's and not just thrown away. Even if say, she were out of line in their eyes, a warning or reprimand at the very most. Smells of all kinds of BS to me.
Craig, if there's more to the story do tell. From the one article posted, it sounds like the principal okay'd a school trip, and since this is America, every single parent had to sign a permission slip as well. So then these kids with full parental knowledge and consent went to a museum, and god forbid saw something that each and every one of us has between our legs. And the kids went and told their parents, who apparently never visited a museum before and didn't know what it was. So then a couple stupid Texan parents go ape shit, bitch the principal, and then she goes in crisis mode and suspends the teacher, just to save her own ass.
That's what it sounded like from the one article. If there's more, do tell.
This Dallas incident is just another example of the increasingly schizophrenic nature the West has towards the human body, sexuality, and sexual expression in general. However did "The Children(TM)" cope when we were wandering around the Savannah nude or mostly nude? Surely the race would've died out, or the children, having seen a peepee, would've grown up into sex-crazed adults.
Even Hitler recognized the amount of bullshit and rights removal a public would endure in order to Protect The Children(TM). This recent pedo-craze and "zomgs nudity!" is no exception, and is just the portal to further removal of internet rights, rights to privacy, government surveillance (for the children!), and attacks on freedom of expression.
Europe isn't really that far behind us, and in some ways is way ahead of us.
There had been some talk about previous disciplinary actions regarding this teacher,
but since I can't find any credible source info I'll have to leave it. Certainly the school board can't really release her personell file to the public.
If she was fired for the field trip I'd certainly be outraged as well, but lets all check the hyperbole at the door just occasionally please.
I think we need to resurrect the "I drew you a penis" thread and we should all post links to it on facebook.
Craig, I read the article. All their claims came AFTER the fieldtrip. The teacher said she has copies of every report beforehand and they're all positive, and the NYTimes backed it up. Might not be completely reliable, but it's all we've got. The principal of the school is Nansy Lawson. I just found her email and sent her this letter. Anyone interested can write to her here: firstname.lastname@example.org
Dear Principal Lawson, and the Fisher School Faculty,
I was disheartened to read a New York Times article describing recent events at your school. I imagine you must feel the same, or at least embarrassed. You should, and not only because of your actions, but because this exemplifies in excruciating detail how high the odds are stacked against any art teacher who ever hopes to teach in public schools in America.
Principal Lawson, you have failed in your post on two counts. First, you authorised the field trip which was planned by your teacher. So, since the trip went exactly as planned, and complaints were lodged based on the trip as it was planned, responsibility rests on your shoulders. If there really was a problem with the trip, you should have foreseen and stopped it beforehand. Shirking your responsibility and shifting it on to others is a sign of poor character.
Second, the complaint lodged was ridiculous, and should've been treated as such. I assume that each parent signed a permission slip. Any parent unaware that museums display nude imagery has to be so ignorant that their complaints should be dismissed out of hand. The vast majority of parents were fine with the trip. Their children benefitted, but instead of you seeing the greater good, you're worrying overmuch at the legal threat of a few individuals, who would never stand a chance in a court of law. This is a clear-cut case where you should have stood up to defend your teacher, and you completely failed. You're thereby creating an environment of isolation and fear throughout your staff which will have ramifications. Nothing kills teacher morale faster than a lack of administrative support. Your job is to get to know and trust your staff - if you didn't fully trust your art teacher beforehand, you should never have approved the trip, which again is why any blame rests on your shoulders.
Art Education is one of the most difficult subjects to teach because there's no clearly established curriculum. Art Education is unique from all other subjects in that the core knowledge built up over millenia was completely trashed and forgotten in the early 20th Century, and is still ignored by academia. Each teacher must piece together whatever knowledge one can find, and tailor it to their students' age group, mediums, and parental concerns. More than most other subjects, students (erroneously) feel a deep connection between drawing ability, intellect, and self-esteem, which teachers have to help them overcome. Teachers must also jump through hurdles presented by superiors, such as writing time consuming lesson plans, prepping student teachers, and incorporating other subjects into the class. In elementary school, the task becomes physically impossible when students typically only get 45 minutes a week, sometimes for only a third of the year, and one teacher may have as many as 800 students! It's laughable.
Add to this, the every too prevalent lack of support or understanding from administration, and the amazing phenomenon in America that it's alright for children to watch unspeakable violence and fight, but that all nudity is pornography. To quote one of my professors, "Lesson learned from the film Jackass - In America it's alright for men to torture each other, but they can't hold hands." I bet the children who complained are sitting at home right now playing Grand Theft Auto. If not now, they will be in a couple years.
I should add, I earned a masters in art ed because I never received a quality art education K-12, and I wanted to give students something I never had. Following my experiences in American school systems like yours, I decided to move to Europe where people still have their heads on right, and don't have to fret about lawsuits every minute.
Your f'ing joking????
I have a drawing of a devil with a huge cock on my FB photos, and I've tagged the majority of my males friends to it!
Here you go TASmith
a 3 pager from 2006
Craig D, Thanks for posting this thread by Elwell, I personally had not seen it and I hope people continue to write letters, there are a lot of good comments and links. I still think there is a fiscal under tone to her being fired, what were they thinking coming up with this insulting, bogus excuse. I'm glad to see people are fighting for her and not just laying back and taking it!!
This happened three years ago??? Aw, come on, Irish Drunk! Need the Info!!! Now I feel stupid... Still, though, for a teacher after 28 years of service to need "professional development" after one field trip is just BS. Firing her and keeping her from working in any nearby schools basically means she has to move towns or find a new line of work - which means she has to go back to school, get even more debt, graduate again, it's all just ridiculous. Some admin have no idea how much they hurt someone by doing all this.
It's like the teacher in the UK fired for telling students that Santa doesn't exist. Not suspended or reprimanded, but fired. While in the US, police can riddle an anarmed man with over 40 bullets and still keep their badge.
Ive personally always viewed the idea of "PTA" and parents having any say in the public school system as what is at fault for creating the system we have today. Parents have a say via voting for the school's officials, and that's where it should stop. If they have any further interest in education then they should involve themselves in said positions and/or teach. The reason "private" schools do so much better than "public" schools in America is due in large part to uneducated parents controlling the public schools. This is where we get things like the football team's budget outweighing the need for new textbooks, or classic novels being banned for "offensive" material, or teachers getting fired for bringing kids to MUSEUMS.
Beyond the whole teacher thing though I have a funny story about myspace and censorship.
A little back story; while drawing is my "passion" photography is my "hobby", specifically macro shots that don't look like what they are is my favorite form of photography. Back when I actively participated in myspace, it was just becoming big. One of my shoots involved an old leather jacket. One of the shots is a seam on a fold. Apparently someone mistook this for a vagina and reported it. Initially I hadn't really notice the yonnic qualities of the picture, but now that's all I see.
Next thing I know I'm getting warnings about posting porn and that my account will be suspended. Needless to say I emailed them back a nasty but civil response, pointing out the obvious, that there was no nudity and this can be backed up by the other shots of the leather jacket.
Heres my old myspace: myspace.com/maninthevan
and here's the picture in question (which was reposted after things were cleared up).
Actually, I seriously doubt that FB pays people to survey pictures. I think those of you who had trouble are victims of someone who clicked the "report" button. This doesn't even have to be someone you know as albums are open to everyone by default.
I have had life drawings on my Fb for months and never had trouble, they are not very explicit (colored pencil and no defined genitals) but definately nudes.
Tas Smith, don't be to cruel to Irish Drunk, haha, Yes, very out of date article but all the same still important facts to remember. I'm glad you wrote the letter, their nightmares should never go away, mahahaha!! I wonder what she's doing now?
LearningCurve, that is ridiculous! cool photo, who's anatomy have they been looking at as ref, bah, someone who clearly looked like leather!!
People should never look at O'keefe paintings again either, I'll start posting O'keefe right away!!! Thanks!
Here's story on how to make your account more private, it's not full proof at all and in the end the warn to choose your friends wisely, but some of the things are useful.
I actually have a pretty elaborate privacy settings scheme but last week FB lost my custom privacy settings, I don't know how long it stayed like that before I went to change my settings and noticed. I find it easier to add people who ask me and then severely restrict their access, than to refuse them, I might have to start doing that if FB can't be more reliable with the settings.