i'm happy to be able to present more recent sketches finally.all drawn with 2B pencil on a4 paper.
first i wanted to do some heads but then it just came to pondering about various dress designs.
trying to copy a girl's head (second from upper left)from a photo at first,but then drawing from memory.
just trying to copy another girl's head from a photo.pretty hard to manage(i'll post the photo ref later on)
and the last one for today.i drew it as late as yesterday.in fact a shading exercise,but also a bit of unintended anatomy practice.the fire in the bg of the second one was originally not planned to be there,but when trying to give him hair,it turned out just to get there.
Last edited by Carnifex; December 9th, 2003 at 03:03 PM.
I'm working on a longer reply for the other thread right now.
Some of these new sketches look a lot more promising.
A quick suggestion would be ... don't only draw fire-and-forget sketches
When you complete a face look at it and ask yourself how you can push the concept and if you have to fix anything.
And maybe vary the time you spend on your sketches.
Most of the ones you posted look like sketches to warm up.
Also draw bigger, more refined sketches and maybe make studies of the features.
ok,i admit those head sketches were more to warm up a bit.the others not.i tried to capture the basic features of the girl's head ot be able to draw it out of mind later in a kindof story(which i never finished or got into really).
sketch page nr3 was drawn before nr2,i tried to draw her face again and again and again but i still haven't got i really.
btw here's one of the references for the girl on page3:
Just curious ... how long do they take?
As Prometheus|ANJ wrote ... if you misplace just one line, just a little then the expression will change completely.
Try to be even more accurate. And if you want to reconstruct the face from different angles you have to find a different way to apprach drawing heads I think.
In that case I'd do what Craig Mullins wrote:
think more, draw less.
i guess the head studies took me about <1minute-2minutes each...it depends how happy i'm with the result and if i think it makes anything better to go on.the dress things may have taken about the same time,because i was drawing straight without any real thoughts,just to get the pose somewhat right and to see how the dress fits and if it fits.
the pictures on the last page took me maybe 1hour+ each,because i did with preliminary sketch with perspective,then anatomy and finally shading(put in mind where the light comes from).the second one took me longer i guess because the perspective was a bit harder and i doodled around with the fire.
yeah and drawing heads from different angles:i have some reference photos which show some different angles,though not enough to do a real serious head study only i think.i asked one of the girls if i might take photos of her to gain reference material,but she refused.
thanx for the input
hey carn, good stuff, ur really coming along i have noticed, good stuff man, keep it up, id give you a crit but i think you know what you need to do, but ur doing it so much props, keep this up.
From the looks of it , it seems that you like to draw, and draw a lot. That's good! So my first advice is to keep that going.
Second, your drawings however, ressemble a lack of knowledge of Anatomy.
There are some really nice anatomy books out there. Buy one or two!
If you catch up with that first it will be a lot easier to capture the human body and face more exact.
Study the skull and muscles, because when you know what lies under the skin, its easier to see the basic forms and subtleties of the human body.
Also, the best way to study at first is to draw from life ( nude models, on the street, parks, café, zoo... or yourself in the mirror )
Also you could start by taking your time for a drawing.
For example: you have those pictures , so why don't you try and copy one of them. ( just a thought) You will learn a lot from it!
Hope this was a bit helpfull
well,in fact i get those advices from pretty much everyone.i already have an anatomy book and am already trying to get how the most important muscles lie under the skind(even if it doesn't show in these sketches too much yet,from your comment to conclude).i don't have too many difficulties with drawing faces(atleast i think so),but ok,ok,you're right,i should draw more from life.it's just hard to get models or spare time(school everyday,mostly until 4 in the evening and then homework,but i don't wanna complain here).thanx anyway
Yes, it wasn't until now that i saw the other thread.
I was reading the replies there and i most hand it to you, you have fire in you
And i see a lot of positive energy in you. That's great!
Don't think of yourself as a GOOD artist. In that way you will not learn fast enough. And believe me.... you still have a lot to learn. I hope i come of right here ( i don't want to scare you ). Because confidence is very important, especially when your applying for a job in this sector.
But in here i think people are just trying to help others out with critics whether they're bad or good. And i am assuming that you post your drawings here to get some critics to help you improve.
So i think some people are a bit surprised when you go in some sort of defence stance towards them. Altough with me , it brings up a smile I hope i'm making myself clear here, hehe
Now enough with the lecture here ...and on to your drawings...
Unfortunately yes, it does not show in your drawings that you know the facial structure well. Don't say that you have not too many difficulties drawing faces.
Because i haven't seen anything (yet) that shows me otherwise. ( hint: look at some model sketches from Kevin Chen here on CA, http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...&threadid=1432
For example if you look at most of your profiles, you see that, your facial line is way to straight . ( altough there's one thats ok, except for the forehead. ( on the second page , the fourth from the left , at the bottom)) All the others are pretty much off.
Also your figures on page 1 are all distorted in some way,
I mean , look at their arms!
The good thing tough is that you show some abilities, but i don't believe your a natural. You will have to work a lot to become very good i guess. But i don't say its not possible, you have the ability! Together with your refreshing confidence the future is hopefull, i believe
Keep it up , and DRAW, DRAW, DRAW...
just cuz you have an anatomy book and you look at it doesn't mean you will ever really learn or understand the structure of the head. it helps to have someone show you. without a good figure teacher around your best bet is that Kevin Chen thread. i was going to send it to you, but toram beat me to it. look at the second page of that thread and you'll see a lot of examples on head structure. pay special attention to the box of the head. your head drawings lack the volume of the head. they are just a few lines with eyes, a mouth and a nose. even the one you drew from reference doesn't show the volume of the head at all. study those Kchen examples, there are plenty of them to learn from. maybe even do a few studies from his examples. i've been drawing for 20 some years and working in video games the past three and i still find myself studying his work. i know it will help me in the long run.
keep it up. good luck.
heh,i admit i didn't give a heck about anatomy on the first page,because all i cared about was to find a dress that suited my needsOriginally posted by toram
Also your figures on page 1 are all distorted in some way,
I mean , look at their arms!
empty-i'm pondering about going to some art school after regular school in two years or something(gotta do civilian service first).i'm pretty amazed by chen's drawings and will work further on.thanx for the links and the crits
one more thing...because you said you've been working in the video game industry:what things were you doing there?concept art or 3d models?because i'm pondering about getting concept artist for a game firm or film company.thanx in advance.
edit: oh,and would someone please tell me if page four is allright or what i gotta work on there.thanx
Page 4 is the worst one IMHO.
You shouldn't try to come up with concepts yet.
If you try then start with simple shapes to add depth to them.
Then add details.
And you have to practice shading. Follow the tutorial by Prometheus|ANJ for some sketches.
Make the studies look like photos when you squint.
I think that is a quote from there!?
Last edited by Signature; December 3rd, 2003 at 09:58 AM.
well,the only problem is my tablet crashed completely shortly and with a pencil only it's veeery hard to achieve foto-like effects...
just one thing that confuses me now...wtf is so bad about page four?the anatomy can't be that bad,i've seen better crits on worse pics(imho),even though i know i gotta practice shading,but that can't be all...
hey, check out this head drawing tutorial.
this is done with charcoal, but it's easy to get the same effects with a pencil. and i agree with jens... excuses are like a$$holes, everyone's got one and they all stink...
yeah,but still i wanna know what exactly's wrong with page four.:confused:
edit:thanx for this very helpful link
Last edited by Carnifex; December 3rd, 2003 at 02:31 PM.
The forms don't read well in both ... the concept for the 2nd one looks funny.
You rely too much on lines.
Everything in the image seems to be equally important.
Make a center of interest. Suggest more detail there and add contrast.
All the lines have the same weight and are too bold.
To come up with concepts like that anatomy isn't all but in yours it still looks faked.
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...threadid=13172Buying an anatomy doesn't magically improve your anatomy drawing skills. The best way to improve is to make tons of studies from life or photos. After a while you can start looking in the anatomy book and only then you can begin to understand which knob is what and hopefully learn to guess muscles better when you make original characters.
ahhh...now i understand!i'm still relying too much on that anatomy book i have.now that i know the muscles and most of their functions,i relate too much on them of course!i want to draw every muscle as outstanding as possible.yes,now i get it! thanx alot signature!
well, the first thing that bothers me is the rendering... it's really "scratchy" and all over the place. smooth it out some and that would make the image a lot better. also, the values of all your lines and shadows are really dark. you need to tone down some of the values so you have some midtones. i can see that you're starting to use core shadows which is
here's a couple more of ron lemen's tutorials. don't just look at them. read them. and read the notes at the end. there's a lot of useful information about rendering and volume of shapes.
now for what's wrong...
first anatomy point...
where's his ribcage? there is no volume of the ribcage. i can see where you drew the ribs in, but i don't see the large egg shape of the ribcage. that should be one of the first things you have sketched in.
second anatomy point...
it looks like there is no pelvic bone in the demon because of the way the side of his abdominal area connects down to his legs. that side area actually tapers down, just above the crest of the pelvis, towards the crotch, creating a V shape.
third anatomy point...
the knees are way out of whack. the knee to our left is way to pointy, the one on the right is better, but the way the lower leg connects to it is awkward. stand in front of a mirror and look at your knees. there more like boxes. use yourself as reference for these certain poses. it's easy to do on your own with a mirror.
again no ribcage, which leads me to notice the connection of the arm to the chest area. the deltoid(shoulder) should appear to connect with the pectoral(large chest muscle). there should be some shadow seperation, but not as defined as you show it.
look at the neck area in your drawing, then compare it to your own and the anatomy book. there's a lot of information not there which make the neck come out of nowhere. you're missing your collar bone, for one. the neck area is still tough for me, i'll admit it, but that's why i noticed it. because i'm trying to figure out how to better draw necks right now.
the forarm to the left is off. i'm not sure what the big shadow is, but the large muscle mass on the front of the forarm should come from the outer condyle of the humerous(large bone in the upper arm that makes up part of the elbow) to the base of your thumb. again, check out your anatomy book.
that's enough for now... i don't have any more time to go through everything else. start drawing from life again, start doing more studies... you can never do enough of these. draw from magazines, any kind of magazines. look over those tutorials for advice. actually do each of those tutorials over and over and over. when you're sick of doing it, do it ten more times. i actually took one of ron's classes. he's a great teacher and a great inspiration.
draw draw draw,
go get yourself some george bridgeman anatomy books. great construction and great drawings.
Yeah exactly. That is one thing I mentioned.ahhh...now i understand!i'm still relying too much on that anatomy book i have.now that i know the muscles and most of their functions,i relate too much on them of course!i want to draw every muscle as outstanding as possible.
Look for phenomena in photos ... try to understand why you see muscles or not ...
and what that other weird thing is that you see ( might happen ).
No post without a Prometheus|ANJ link :p
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...&threadid=5648well, the first thing that bothers me is the rendering... it's really "scratchy" and all over the place. smooth it out some and that would make the image a lot better.
what do you take me for?Originally posted by empty
don't just look at them. read them. and read the notes at the end.
but seriously,thanx,wow,i wouldn't have thought that someone would take that much time to point out everything.thanx for your patience empty.
yeah,the ribcage...i assume it is achieved by a way of shading that it comes to see.the problem i have here is that the chest seems to cover the ribcage,which makes it not visible.well,now i know it's gotta be different.
and the knees...i've always had problems with kness...nowhere it is covered how exactly the connect to the legs.i can't find it and i don't get it really.
by the left forearm i suppose you mean left from our point of view?or *his* left?
oi,that means tomorrow i'll get bashed:pthat's enough for now...
thanx for all the input guys
How old are you?
Don't just practice. Also Practice the right things, the right way.
He is 18 since the 27th of November afaik.
But let me think ... maybe you didn't ask because you actually want to know it!?
according to his bio, he's three years older than you... but i don't think that should matter. all he wanted was a critique.
Sorry then, but i was simply curious.
Don't just practice. Also Practice the right things, the right way.
Originally posted by Jens
ok carnifex READ this carefully
the only reason you got this many replies is that you refuse to accept the comments of people. I see all these great advices typed out trying to reason with you but you seem to ignore every post with some kind of lame excuse. You are not a good artist, you are not skilled yet, and you'll never be if you don't CHANGE your attitude and look at this in a broader perspective than your own mind. Most people in here have 10x the experience in drawing than you so don't just ignore them.. i'm not saying you can't get good, you can but only if you want to learn
final point: if you don't agree with me then i got this great forum for you. People on it will be honest and swift in their judgement.
behold the EATPOO forum :evilbat:
Yeah, carnifex you need to just swallow your pride (its gotta be false pride because i'm not seeing how you get any out of those drawings) and listen to these fine people. These guys aren't taking shots at you, just giving you advice. Btw, why do you have a tablet when you don't even know the basics of anatomy? :confused:
alright guys, now we're just bagging on him. give him critiques or don't post. if we give him a good critique and he doesn't listen, it's his loss. he knows he has to work on anatomy already, so let's stop shoving down his throat. he knows he needs to draw more from life, but don't we all? let's just help him along and stop slamming him.
carnifx, just keep drawing and studying from life and things will come around. when you study anatomy, don't just look at the pictures, try and understand the structure. that's why those g. bridgeman books are good, he shows you really informative and simple ways to understand the constructive anatomy of a person.