very cool drawings in these recent uploads, some lovely life drawings and some very atmospheric perspective drawings too! I'm really impressed with the tools - with tools there's no where to hide, they have to be very accurate/symmetrical/make logical sense and these are spot on!
Thek- Thanks a lot. The tools are for a very interesting project in my design class. Eventually we will produce a final set of full size drawings and a model out of corrugated cardboard. The catch is that the model is supposed to be at least nine times normal size. I'm stoked.
Small one today, sorry. I think that I'm going to try to integrate more text into my sketchbook pages. I had a professor give what little text I have some props, and I think that it makes an interesting graphic element even if it serves no real purpose. Any thoughts on this?
Hello! drawn yours it appeals to me, much expressive one
Exscuse my bad english
Hi, thanks for visiting my SB. I can see what you mean about the sill lifes. Your tools are a good example, they teach you to be more patient.
You have some really nice sketches here, i like the baroque-ish ones in post #21 and also the enviroish tree in front of the building. Some of the earlier sketches seened a little rushed.
Hey, a long time not seen you You seem to be doing well, going to that spiffy art-school of yours . In anycase, nice to see you weilding that pen the dynamic way you do! Very good gestures. With your pencils I miss a broader range of values, or a real plan of what you want to do with them. The Pencil is a tonal medium, you should keep that in mind!
Great SB, hope you keep it up a bit longer this time!
You have some nice updates, Sedig. The sketches of your classmates are great. The hand sketches are good practice. I remember one drawing teacher having us do 100 blind sketches of our hands, where you don't look at the paper and just look at your hand while you sketch it. I need to try that again.
Wow, lots of new faces.
Jack Nugget- Thanks, I think. Are you using a translator? I'm afraid it's hard to understand, but it isn't a problem. I appreciate the visit!
Loolarge- Thanks- You got me with the rushed comment. I'm a lot better about than I was back in the day, but I still have trouble with rushing. I'll try to really focus on slowing down.
Faust- Welcome, and thank you. I'm afraid the art school isn't that spiffy. "Southern Illinois University" isn't really known for its art program. However, the architecture program here is pretty good, and I have a scholarship for that. I never thought that I would receive a compliment on pen work. You bring up a solid point about the tonal issues with pencil. I have more questions down further.
Megamax- Hand sketches are indeed good practice. I'm afraid that my hands are still very weak, so I think I need to start a hands only sketchbook. Maybe if I fill it up I will be a bit better at them...
So, Faust brought up a good point. Am I focusing on contrast too much? Is that possible? I really am beginning to wonder if I don't have enough midrange tone. I suppose I should think about it more. We'll see what comes out of it, if anything. I would really appreciate ANY thoughts that ANYONE might have regarding this.
The page on the left is from memory/imagination, based on the music video for the song "Bullets" by Tunng.
The page on the right is from my mind, which is why they are all profiles. I need to do other views of the face.
I'm sorry, but I disagree on the notion that line is the simple most important thing. When establishing a solid value-range and describing the form with lights and shadows, the line-drawing becomes less important and may only be used as outlines imho. You should think about what you want, if you want a line-drawing than you should purely stick to the lines and try not to go into the values since they mess up your pure linedrawing. If you want to make a tonal drawing, however, use your lines as contruction (Okay, erase and tighen them as often as you wish and take your time with CONSTRUCTION, maybe that's what the fat kid was all about). After setting up the shapes and the proportions and finally, the rendering, construction lines wouldn't be visible anyways and if they are, you may want to keep them as outlines (Then, you still have to do tonal variations within them + lineweight) or erase them completely.
Well, what am I ranting.... you'll figure your way out, yourself! It's a matter style and personal approach, really. Some prefer the outline everything and some build up the form from within.
This is what I love about this website.
Andrew- Thank you thank you. "By establishing those extremes you can put in the appropriate values for the mid tones. And darkest doesn't have to be pitch black nor lightest bright white, they just need to be the most extremes within the drawing." That part I found particularly insightful. I never really thought of that. Something to try, I guess. Also, about slowing down: this is something that I have really been trying to do lately. When I looked through my sketchbooks from 2005, I saw how rushed everything was. Since then, my drawing process is way slower, and more important to me, more calm. I don't feel nearly so out of control. I imagine that in another few years my reaction will be the same when I view this year's sketchbook. I really hope that I can continue to make progress in this direction.
A question: can you further explain the concept of "lightest dark" and "darkest light" ?? What designates something as a "dark" or a light" ? Do you have any suggested reading on the subject?
Gama- Thanks. I agree with that fat kid too.
Faust- "Okay, erase and tighen them as often as you wish and take your time with CONSTRUCTION, maybe that's what the fat kid was all about." I think you got it right here. Maybe tfk will disagree, but I think that this is what he was trying to say. Thanks for the visit.
Okay, so here are my thoughts for today:
When that fat kid said that drawing in a sketchbook is about understanding and learning, not products and end results, it got me thinking. I both agree and disagree with this statement. I want to be concerned with both ideas when I'm drawing. I want to learn something new, or further develop a skill, but I also want to produce something visually interesting. I don't really do a lot of finished work, unless it's a project for school, so my sketchbook is my personal artwork. A lot of the time I find looking through a sketchbook more interesting than viewing an individual "finished" piece.
Something slightly more abstract- who says that a sketchbook page, or even the entire sketchbook isn't a "finished" piece? Maybe the work isn't as polished, but I really think that an "unfinished" sketch can have more life and interest to it than the final "finished" work.
I guess what I'm saying is that I want my sketchbook to be a finished piece all its own. I certainly plan to learn something along the way, and I fully expect every sketchbook to be better than the next because of it, but I also want to poduce an interesting end result.
Does anyone else have an opinion? I'd especially like it if someone completely disagreed. I want to hear the other side. Gimme your thoughts!
And Faust thought that he was ranting...
Sorry that today's update is small, hopefully tomorrow's will be much bigger.
I'd have to say I agree with you on the part about SB's "being a finished piece all its own." I think this is especially true when you are putting yourself out on the web. Especially if you are a commercial artist...you really have to make sure you stuff look visually appealing above (most) all else. You can be one of those people who do it "for the art of it" but you may not get much work...
I guess you can call it finished if you reached your goal for the drawing? When you are stratified?
Well, I still disagree with you, Andrew (May I call you Andrew? That fat kid is too much to type ). First of all, you make an interesting distinction between "drawing" and "painting" which is in my experience a dichotomous concept. Almost all Artists, designers etc I talked to had this notion about being more or less "painterly" with their images but none of them could give me a pleasing definition of what they actually meant with it. It's a feeling, I admit and I tend to go that way sometimes, too saying that is more of a painting and this is more of a drawing. But honestly, it only occurs to me as art-school smart-ass talk. No offence.
So is it a drawing when you use a pencil and not a brush? You want to tell me that you cannot draw with paint? I know I am leaning out of the window now as soon as you stop seeing lines anymore, how can you talk about using it as a means to describe form? With very intrigued hatching, you may see the lines still, but your brain is making up all the stuff with interpretating the lines to a full form so that the lines are not being seen as individuals either. I think your example of 2 lines crossing each other doesn't suffice since 2 lines crossing each other are being perceived as two lines crossing each other and not as space. As you make it more than 2 lines, you get somewhere, but then the brain begins to see the inbetween and not the outlines.
So, I think I could agree with you if you took one step above and talked about proportions. The proportions have to be right, and they are normally established with line, be it trial and error or measuring. When the tonal drawing sucks because of line-drawing it is normally because the proportions aren't right in the first place. Again my question, when hatching is added, where's the line-drawing? (Unless, of course, you handled an outline which is a different thing imo)
Now to the tones, I don't think they are that easy to do and just an addition. You should put as much thought into it as into everything else. Setting up a tonal plan is an essential part of the composition and can be done with as much care as you please.
What I completely disagree on, though is you saying that construction in life-drawing is bullshit. How, you think should people learn those valuable skills in making up stuff from scratch? Constructing what you see means simplifying and thinking about the shapes and trying to logically grasp the form. What do you think those people that make cast-drawings are doing? They are contructing over hours and hours, trying to grasp every tiny little bit they see, seeing more and more over time and getting it into their head. Do you think they are all waisting their time?
I do agree on your notion on tone, though. Dividing tones into shadow-tones, light-tones and halftones does indeed help. You should limit your tones before beginning, though. Mentler once wrote that a good drawing doesn't need more than 4-5 tones (as I remember correctly). You can even do drawings with just 2 tones. (Stencil-art is a good example for that). On the other hand, Loomis siad you should handle 8 different tones when drawing, so in the end there's an argument here as well.
Sorry if I sound offensive but my experience (Which is made up of self-learning so I can not back myself up with academic knowledge) states that what you say is the truth is not the truth at all. We all perceive the world differently and even all that stuff I wrote up there is just my personal observations which are not in the least to be considered objective.
Last edited by ~Faust~; February 1st, 2008 at 06:07 AM.
Nyx702- thanks for the input. For me, drawing in my sketchbook is a fun way to spend my time, learn, and grow. I don't plan to make a living in concept art (I'm studying architecture) so I don't really worry about the commercial aspect yet. I just feel that the work I do in my sketchbook carries over to the design oriented architecture stuff. I guess what I'm saying is that right now, it is pretty much "for the art of it," and I'm totally okay with it.
Okay, so. There are a lot of ideas here. If there is going to be a brawl, take it outside. I think that this discussion could be a great thread on its own. Maybe I'll start it. Does anyone have a suggestion as to the best place to do this? Or should I just drop it entirely, even though I think that I'm getting a lot out of it? Of course, if you guys feel comfortable with an open debate, with me asking questions here and there, feel free to continue commeting here. I just don't want a battle royale.
Andrew- Thank you for this. I really am getting a lot out of it. So far, I agree with the importance of line. I find that as I draw more and more, I can't run away from it, or hide it with rendering. I also appreciate the very clear explanation of the bit about darks and lights. I think that I will be able to apply this. Hopefully I will see a difference in future drawings.
Faust- Thanks to you too. I'm afraid I can't offer my opinion on the painting v. drawing bit. I don't paint, as in use paints. Good old graphite is enough for me to handle right now. I definitely see your point about drawing with the paintbrush though. What is the difference? I also think that tone is very important, and can really help describe form. It might be solidly argued that tone is unecessary if the line drawing is perfect, but I don't really draw something based on necessity. I like the way that a nice render looks.
Okay, to both of you- I think that maybe there is a difference in definition concerning construction. Both of you have very solid points regarding this, so maybe I'm just confused. I understand what Andrew means about not needing to construct for referenced work. Everything we neeed to completely describe something is right in front of us. All we need to do is put it on paper. Unfortunately, this isn't easy. I also understand Faust's bit about constructing as a means of mentally solidifying things for eventual drawing from imagination. If we don't know how to construct something, we can't draw it without seeing it. I think that Andrew touched on this in his post. My problem is combining these two ideas. Perhaps both ideas should be applied individually. Any thoughts?
Also, a new topic, just to screw with us: Concerning the first image in this post, featuring Phillipe Starck as superman and two more people on the right page- everything here was drawn from photograph (For the sake of this discussion, ignore the lady at bottom right. Unseuccesful attempt). When I drew the man on the right, I really tried for accuracy, and from what I can tell, I achieved it (decently). On the drawing of Starck, fun took priority over accuracy. Here is the kicker: to me, the man on the right looks dead, there is no spark, he is just a reproduction of the photograph. Starck, however, seems to have a hint of life to him. Does anyone else agree about the lack of or presence of "life" in the drawings? If so, does anyone have an opinion as to why? Could it be because the Starck piece ended up almost caricaturized? If not, maybe I'm seeing things. Thoughts? From anyone?
Holy crap. Long post. I'm still awake, so I'm pretending that this was posted on February 1st.
whoa! Ok im not going to even get involved with the discusions going on here (mostly cause im to lazy to read them ) so im just going to comment on the art... Wow I see you've been busy too! good to see that you fixed the scanning problem! i really like your still lifes (now i know why you were telling me to do more...) and i like youre superman. one thing i noticed about the tall guy wearing th edark coat is that his forehead is a little to flat and the hair doesn't really form around the head very well. k that's all I got!
I don't want to start a brawl and an argument and you're right, this place is about you
I love that you do the art for its own sake, many here are try to become skilled very fast in order to make money soon. I am kind of in the same situation, it feels nice just to draw what you like and not learn what you need to pursue this animation-career but what pleases visually and brings you further personally. So kudos to you.
And that last gesture page is juicy.
Okay, so I just saw Big Trouble in Little China. Wow.
Rockhart- nothing wrong with getting "involved." The more that get involved, the more opinions and ideas, and hopefully the more learning that comes out of it. There is a lot of really good information in there. I would call it recommended reading.
Gama- I didn't even notice that until you said something. Looking at it makes me smile now. I'm gonna have to compare that to the original picture. Good catch.
Faust- Thanks. It's really important to me that art stays fun. That's exactly why I draw what I like. Thanks for the visit.
Looking through Paparazzi's sketchbook today led me to these. If you ahven't seen it yet, find it. Great stuff. For today's drawings, I was trying to stick with my lines, or just do a contour drawing. Pen is a beast.
Am I committing a sin by updating WHILE watching the Superbowl?
No replies, so:
More of these pen drawings. Most of these are done from photos on flikr. I think that I see improvement, or at least I feel more comfortable, with pen. Any thoughts on these? Good idea? Bad idea? Nobody cares?
The Idea is deinately not bad. You should try a gel-pen, though. They are great for alternating the thickness of the lines. On the other hand, I think copying from photos with the pen is a duresome exercise I doubt its effectiveness. In your case, I would try to get some artist with cool pen-scetches (HPX,Flaptraps,etc) and copy their stuff, if you want to copy something anyway.
Eventually, you will grow more confident with your lines, probably.
Faust- I'm glad to hear that it is a good idea. I did try that gel pen, but it didn't work very well o the pages of my small sketchbook. I did have some success with one in a different sketchbook, and I will post those results tomorrow, I think. I haven't yet investigated HPX or Flaptraps, but they are on my list.
Today's discussion topic: Is drawing faces from photo ref a good idea or a bad idea? Faust doubts its effectiveness, and I think I agree with him, to a point. The photo does the work for us by flattening a 3D shape into two dimensions. Almost like cheating. However, I wonder if there might be some value in it, perhaps with line confidence as Faust said, or maybe something with identifying shapes. Anyone have an opinion?
So, mo pen for today. I was really trying to channel Paparazzi in some of these. All are from life, actually. Still trying to identify contours and put them on paper with one attempt.
definitively a good idea, it helps not only to get an idea of how light works on faces (at least on common shapes of our faces) but to get rid of that glossy idea that all faces should look the same (that nose is too small, to wide, eyes to big, face to round...they all exist). I think that the best way is to later come and take that image, that referenced drawing, and try do de-compose it, to get a more deep idea of all it's elements. But it's something i wouldn't stick to very long, if what i want is to create, and not just draw from a reference. or so I think...
I consider it a challenge before the whole human race, and I ain't gonna lose.
lalovergel- Thanks for the visit. Idefinitely agree with your comment about not all faces looking the same. I also like the idea of coming back and analyzing. That is definitely something that I need to do more of. I put things aside, and I should be looking at them again.
I think that these are the last of these pen sketches for a while. Time for more pencil. I find it more fun to use. On some of these, I was experimenting with displaying some shapes as solid and flat. The hair on some of these, for example. A question that arose, however, was one of distraction. I used hatching to accomplish the dark areas, and I wonder if it can become to distracting. I like the feeling that it gives to the piece, but is it too much? Any opinions appreciated.
Hey, if you're up to something new to study now, I'd advice you to follow the path of all the bastards around here (including me) and do some Loomis/bridgman/hogarth/etc-studies. They REALLY help getting an eye for the right proportions. But don't stop doing studies from life, man! You're develoing nicely, this: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/att...1&d=1202241699 has a very nice mood to it!
I like the confidence of lines in some of these.
These pen sketches are really good! I especially love the one with the Mannequin and the keyboard - it takes real intuition/concentration to get the keys on a keyboard looking right and it appears you've done it - in pen! It'll be interesting with your next pencil sketches now - do you have a new level of confidence now that you've gone several sessions with pen?
As for your life in photograph reproduction dilemma, it reminded me of some old Disney articles where they noticed that when they traced photos and film (rotoscoping) for animation, it never turned out as good as when they just drew it. The reason being that drawing is about communication, and just copying communicates what is seen, and not necessarily what 'is'. Drawing from life or memory means you're analysing something, then communicating your version of it. There were some great Walt Stanchfield gesture lecture notes on animationmeat before where he'd talk about sketching, and he said (something along the lines of) "don't go for what you see, go for truth" and he'd say sketching from photos is always harder because you have to compensate for the camera's lens. I used to find that last part crazy (it's stationary! It's not a real person and hence less intimidating!) but I believe it now.
Wow, I got me lots o' replies today. And I'm on page three. Sweet.
Faust- Anatomy studies are definitely on my to do list. It certainly seems to be effective for lots of people. I don't know if I will post the studies in my sketchbook, because I often find them not as interesting to look at, but we'll see. Also, I don't think that I could ever stop drawing from life. I get a kick out of it.
Iambanana- Thanks. That superman guy is Phillipe Starck. He is "quite a character." Take a look at his work if you want to see someone who manages to be really successful in several fields.
Rockhart- I also enjoy the mannequin as a zombie. He's been chillin like that for a few days now. A painting, eh? Would some marker drawings suit you? I don't really have access to paints, or a place to paint (i'm in a dorm). Also, I start working with markers in class this semester. Maybe I can get a head start on that. If you simply must have a painting, however, I'll see what I can do.
Gama- I know exactly what you mean about the flattening. I actually desired some of it, because I think it looks neat when some things register as flat. My question for you is this: Do you find the flattening distracting? Do you think that it takes away from the piece? If so, why? I really appreciate your input.
Retronym- Thanks. Line confidence was definitely a goal. It still is a goal. It will probably always be a goal. I just gotta keep working on it.
Thek- Thanks for your input about the drawing from photograph. I especially liked the comment about compensating for the camera lens. What a way to think. Maybe someday I'll be able to do it, but not now. Also, I think that as artists communication is really important, possibly even the whole purpose. Maybe when we draw from photographs, we are letting someone else (the photographer) do the communicating for us. Perhaps the life can come into a drawing from photograph when we add something of our own...
So Gama's post leads to today's question, which is a rewording of yesterday's. He pointed out the flatness of the hatching in some of my pen drawings. I've been critiqued before about following the form, but that wasn't my goal with these drawings. I was shooting for confident contours. I used the hatching to provide a little more visual interest. However, Gama brings up a valid point. Was the flatness a bad thing? I can definitely see the flatness being distracting from the form. I'm really looking for some more opinions on this one.
The first few pages have some really snarky looking faces/heads on them. These were the result of what I view as a bad idea: I rendered an initial semi-blind contour drawing. The lines weren't exactly accurate, so the proportions are totally off. I was hoping for almost a caricature effect, but no luck. Thoughts on these? Personally, I get a kick out of the guy with the really squished wide head. The last drawing was a frustrating one. I guess those happen sometimes. I need to slow down.