IDW #51 Topic: Sniper Rifle
Deadline for voting: Wednesday, December 12 2007
No voting for your own entries! I repeat, no voting for your own entries
Give critiques and comments, we're all here to learn from each other!
Original thread: IDW #51: Sniper Rifle
Last edited by yoitisi; December 4th, 2007 at 11:23 AM.
This is a laser rifle, so there is no clip per say, however there is a power cell located on the side, it is the deadliest laser rifle of its kind, and is designed for mobile snipers, allowing the user to run or even jump and maintain pinpoint accuracy. this is due to the built in highly precise targeting scope, which auto corrects when fired.
Basicly its more a sniper gun / crossbow. Its designed to fire 2 bolts at a time, can either be simultanious or singularly one after the other. Unlike a conventional bow like weapon, this one has a huge built in carbine towards the end of the gun that carries approximetly 400 plus bolts. Also unlike other weapons, this one uses compressed gass for power. Totaly silent, suited for those hunting trips and special occassions. To add to the hunter feel experience, this gun is built in a more older traditional shape, the stock and hand hold is made from real deer ankler. The scope from the outside looks like any other old style type scope, however the inner sight does infact have infrared, also a totaly new design especialy designed for those awkward times when you wish you had 2 guns, the Duo scope, 2 seperate scopes built into one another. You may think this a pointless design, however due to the extra ordinary design of this gun, each target system and runners for the two bolts can be individualy set up very easily so as 2 targets in a relativily short distance from each other can now both be targeted and killed in a single shot.
Elite Draconian Sniper Rifle.
This long range rifle is based on the Standard sniper rifle, originally used by Severinian Field Troopers.
The major improvements are :
1 - The new generation optical zoom X20, with Heat & Night vision. Target analysing and recognition.
2 - The "FR3323" system, gel cooled silencer. No loss of efficiency due to multiple shots.
3 - Improved sensibility of the electronic trigger.
4 - Bullet casing collector, replacing ejection chamber, avoiding the usual tracks covering task.
5 - New ammunition storage increasing number to 16 bullets 12.6 caliber.
Nightingale Limited Edition Sniper Rifle
Elegant. Deadly. The Nightingale limited edition Sniper Rifle, from ye olde master gunsmiths Locke & Lode.
Not much to add here, only a slight note:
There were a lot of WIP's in the thread still, so I'm not going to call out names and why they didn't end up in the poll.
good job everyone!
lynus - i think your lines could be a bit sharper to give the impression of the laser rifle's precision engineering. Also, I don't think the stock is the right shape - the angle should be inward if anything. Having said that, the use of the figure gives a good scale reference and the rifle looks great in the 1st person view.
Legato - innovate magazine concept, although the firing would take place right next to the shooter's ear. the barrel and the magazine don't look quite right. they could have:
1. more graded shading to them for a softer matt finish
2. more convincing reflective finish (edge highlights, light reflections)
Good colours and a good presentation layout.
Grenogs - highly original idea. I'm not sure i agree with the fusion of the olde looking sight exterior with a digital, tracking, nighvision ect view. If you have technology, why use an antler as a stock? Maybe it would have felt more complete if the sight was... half a broken pair of binoculars? i dunno. I like the two shot idea, but maybe its not neccesary. I love the texture of the antler.
Zutaiola - really nice painting, good textures, believable concept. The sight appears to be leaning to the left. If that is supposed to be the case, the sight won't be lined up with the barrel: 1mm out at 1 metre = 1metre out at 1 km (edit. maybe that's wrong, dunno). Also the scope in the 1st person view looks a bit satin. it could do with some texture.
Spitch - The perpective looks a bit out on the 1st person, the sight looks like its mounted halfway down the rifle. That said, I think your 2d view is the best view of the competition. excellent tones and a strong sense of form.
deviousg - Firstly, I'm not sure you can get both eyes to your scope without really tilting your head. I think the lights look good, but i can't imagine they have a place on a covert weapon. The front end maybe looks a little fragile for a weapon too. Great idea to show the scope in the background. maybe add some texture the next time, or make it more glossy, either way, the surface finish looks a bit unfinished. nice details on the barrel.
form2function - this presentation looks very 'complete' and well balanced. Technically, although you have provided a lot of info, i'm not sure it make a great deal of sense. a velocity of 220 feet per sec would make this an ineffective weapon. typically it should be 2 to 3 thousand fps. although you did say it was rocket rounds.(300 rounds per min?) However, its a beautiful piece of work. well though out, well painted, well done. you get my vote.
voted for form2function, reasons mainly, i liked the sleek design on this, also had a very light look to it, which has to be a benefit if a quick escape is needed.
some quick comments on everyone elses why i never voted
lynus: reminds me to much of unreal tournament
legato: nice design, except the shell discharge looks to be to far back, could be extremely dangerous to the shooter, especially undercover.
mine: probably would never work, and looks extremely heavy.
zutaiola: same as legato about the shell discharge. Looks quite heavy, with dual caliber rounds, but i do love the old looking design, could defenetly imagine shooting elephants or some other large predator.
Spitch: not much to say on yours, this was my second choice, again i like the sleekness on this, almost looks like its rapped in a rubber casing. Also like the very modern scope.
Nutkin: quite an unique design, the front end could be a problem though when shooting out of very small gaps. Also i know this wasn't asked for but this doesn't look like it could be dismantled easy if at all, could be a problem if the sniper is also an assassin.
deviousg: another good looking design, all them lights could be a problem though, could easily atract an enemy. Also the double scope would cause problems with it being smack centre of the stock.
-grenogs, I didn't use any ref to do mine, I did it all out of my head, that was kind of a harsh , ah well
lynos, i never said you used reference or that you copied it, i just think it reminds me of unreal tournament. If i offended then i realy am sorry, it was just an observation, maybe the character next to it also didn't help.
The 220 fps was for the rocket/guided rounds and in part for the whisper rounds, for regular amunition such as the armor-piercing rounds it takes it's 3,500 fps. On the flip side the 300 was a typo, it's 180 for the standard rounds (but only 20 for the rockets, slow buggers). Also that rpm is mainly theoretical, since the rifle takes a maximum of nine rounds split over three cartridges (those three ridges on the side). It can selectively fire from each of the three loaded cartridges, but each only holds three rounds. The idea being that it offers some choice when improvising, particularly with when choosing rounds based on distance, but still keeps things on the sniper's mindset. And yes, I had planned for a three-round cartridge from the get-go and was again surprised to see it used by you when I saw your post. Great minds I suppose.
Now for the crit:
Lynus: Definitely futuristic. I really like the overall palette alot (except the neon green). Bonus points for the character sketch as well. Overall, the design itself aside, I'd say try to polish and tighten up your lines a bit. Too much is never good, but you need some definition to keep the eye grounded.
Legato: One of the finest renders and presentations I've seen from your stuff to date. Your texture and lighting on the first-person part is top-notch. Coming into ID from a Graphic Design background, I'm a stickler for presentation. It can be as important, and sometimes more, than the concept itself. And personally I like the job you did on the gloss finish, it gives it a stylized feel. On the design itself... I hate to say it, but I'm generally not fond of bullpups. For purely aesthetic reasons, mind you. However, I think you did a nice job of handling it and the cylinder sold me on it easily. I won't comment on the technical side because I know you know your stuff when it comes to guns. I won't vote until I get some sleep, but I'm leaning heavily towards yours. And congrats on finally seeing your cylinder design realized!
Grenogs: I love the off-road approach you took with it! Reminds me of something a wookiee would use. Er.. In a good way. Definitely unique, and that's hard to do often. I love the antler texture on all sides, and I think the scope view helps drive the point. That metal gleam bugs me a lot though, and if it's meant to drive the eye to the first-person part (which it does and is good), I'd say something more toned would be appropriate. Another thing that bugs me is that you didn't match the nice coppery tone of the scope from the side and top view into your first-person view. The scope color gets colder from the side, through the top, to the first-person. And that scope also looks flat and unfinished compared to the base and other views. The rainbow LEDs are a bit off based on the rest of the design, but then you're very free with color on all of it. I also would have liked to see a bit more thought on how the dual scope works instead of it being hidden away, since it's such a prominent feature of the design. Ok, I'll stop now. Good work however and I'm glad you stuck with it to the end.
Zutaiola: Definitely one of my favorite designs. I love the old west style you gave it, and I particularly love the gold palette. I'm a sucker for saturated warm metals. I also like the chunky, shoulder-breaking feel you gave it. Your sideviews are great. The first person is good as well, though having it tilted at an angle is a bit disorienting. Also you get a little too blurry right at the back end with the cheek-rest. The black hands are a little odd too, but that's neither here nor there. The scope view is good, and definitely has a realistic feel to it, but the square cut you gave it jams up the page a bit. I would have suggested a round cut, or a small size. All in all a good one though, and I like that you paid attention to some of the details.
Spitch: You definitely captured a reptilian feel to it. The good: Your texture is excellent, once again. I think someone already mentioned a rubbery feel and I see it too. The design itself is also unique, at least to me. The image on the scope is a great touch as well. I'm not sure if the case collector has been done before, but if not it's definitely a nice idea. And a good alternative to caseless rounds for any sniper. And I like the font. The bad: Spitch! Never, ever, ever let your borders or other page accents cross your artwork! If you want to add a border, break it where it crosses the art (see mine for example). Further on the topic of presentation, either include the captions on your page or leave out the numbers. Splitting it that way is another mistake. Consider that tomorrow someone unrelated might be looking at your design outside of this thread and they'll be scratching their heads wondering what the call-outs identify. Plus I think you had enough space on the page for it. The sketch is also a bit too quick and rough to be placed next to the beautiful renders you did. If you want to include some sketches in your presentation, it's a good idea to quickly polish them up. Otherwise, if you just need a placemat for your call-outs, a good trick is to black out or desaturate and lighten your main render and use that instead. And lastly... The hands, man. They look like they came from an airplane safety sheet. Try not to mix and match styles if you can help it, especially when they interact with each other. It wouldn't be as bad if it wasn't flat hands holding the realistic rifle. Ok. That's all, I promise. Damn it, I'm gonna make ya'll think about design presentation if it kills me.
Nutkin: Clean and simple. Very clinical design and colors, as you intended. I like the concept. A lot. It's where I started on my design as well. However, it seems like you kinda dropped the ball on it. I actually liked your concept sketches more than your final. It might be because the subject and your take on it contrast so much with your presentation style. The sketches were very clean, but the final has a gritty texture to it as does the presentation. Though I suppose simplicity and directness is in there too. I look forward to seeing your takes in future weeks though, as I think you had less time this time. My only suggestion is to follow through on a concept throughout the length of it.
deviousg: Damn you for stealing my gyro-stabilizer. Just kidding. Kinda. I like the design though. Very tech throughout. Your renders are very pleasing to the eye as well, simple on first glance but detailed when you look closer. Something's missing from the presentation but I'm not sure what. It might just be the lack of title, honestly. But all in all I really like it.
Myself: This was definitely one of the longest research phases I've done in a while. Believe it or not this is the first time I've sat down to really design a gun, and I spent way too many days reading up on different technologies and trends. That's how it goes though. You put in the time once and then you have the knowledge for the rest of your days (barring memory misfires). I also changed up on the design a lot over the week, as I wasn't sure what direction I wanted to take. I had strong urges towards different styles and periods and it took a while to settle on one design. I had a rough idea of a minimalist approach I wanted to take, but it was really the stock that defined the style for me. What was the most annoyingly hard to finish, again believe it or not, was the scope. The design had a very particular language to it and it was hard for me to translate that into the scope. I must have gone back and changed it at least ten times, in completely different directions. In the end I think I managed to come up with something that worked, but man was it painful. All in all I spent most of the week working on this on and I think it shows. Those game reference shots really upped the ante, and since last round I pulled a design out of my arse a day before the deadline, this week I wanted to make up for it.
I hope ya'll like it. I might post up a couple other views I did at some point tomorrow, just to share them. And I definitely suggest checking the larger image to get the full detail. You might even be able to read the small type on it!
And now it's time to crash. Promise to vote once I wake.
Thanks for the feedback. Good comments. I wish i had time to buff the render out more - started sunday - the front does look too fragile. The stereo scope maybe a bit difficult to use. I thought about the lights giving things away - but it looked better with them.
Lynus - I like the alien take. I like the green you have added, I would like to more of that, like glowing green wires - probably not that practical - but honestly, practicality takes backseat to cool factor in alot of concept design in my experience.
Gregngos - I love the idea of being able to target two things with one shot. This would add an interesting game play mechanic.
Zutaiola - Almost like a steam punk direction - which is very cool. Not sure what the tan colored thing is on the back. 3D view could use some love.
Form2function - I like the side view of the gun - like the long barrel and scope. I like the gray version better, and the forms in the 3D view are blocky - like it was extruded - I think you are going for a thin simple gun, but that is the point of the 3D view - the gun has to work there as well - this is where you will see it most of the time.
Many of the entries worked better in the side view in my opinion, and the 1st person view I felt was really important to this challenge. Some great ideas here though.
Last edited by deviousg; December 4th, 2007 at 05:55 PM.
Since I couldn't finished mine, I can vote at least lol. It was definitely not the easiest voting for me. I finally decided to choose "form2function" The concept, graphic layout and techical details seem to be a bit more professional to me.
However, all the other contributers are awesome as well. Now it is time look forward for IDW#52
@Zutaiola: Hey buddy, do you know how I came up with that "Shell discharge hole" thing in a second? Because I made it up lol
"As you think, so shall you become."
the culmination of 2 minutes on google images with the keywords "carbine diagram"
"ejection port" - close but no cigar...
devious, form, nutkin, thanks for the crits, I was trying to do two challenges in two days and I think both are unfinished because of this. In the future I will be paying much more attention to presentation, i should have cleaned up the lines because they do look smudgy, but I still like mine even if y'all don't see ya on the next one ! btw, you all tried hard and it shows. good work
while it does have a vague unreal tournament feel, i don't think its a bad thing. if i could have changed one thing however it would be the (in comparison) sloppy render of the person holding it. while i do agree that scale can be helpful, either do a vague human form or go all out, as it stands it seems rather mid way there. i do however really like the first person shot. while i don't think its in a resting position, it has a feel as if its being raised up to flip down a bipod, or press a few buttons etc...
oops, forgot myself! i said a lot of what i wanted to say in the first thread, but to cover what has been said so far - the rounds are caseless, so i don't have an ejection port on this. but to really cover my ass, i'd like to propose that i wanted to disregard all forms of practicality and just have fun with this one!... and i need to go to bed... so i'll wrap this one up early
i seriously admire you for fighting the uphill battle on this one! while not a traditional sniper, i think you brought a few new things to the table by going for a 'tribal' or almost primitive look. however it seems that once you get to the scope, both design wise and conceptually you lose that focus. also, a bit of mention on how both shots could hit two different targets at a variable distance apart from each other could have helped a bit!
absolutely stunning render, and with a nice steampunk gloss, this would have been my vote had it not been for the first person perspective and the relatively minor infraction with the whole off-set scope thing. if we were just going off of side renders though, yours wins hands-down.
i would be interested to know how you went about doing your first person view. to me, you gun really holds its own design wise, with a odd rather alien feel (yet using projectiles) however in regards to my original questions, i think this could have benefitted greatly with a bit more time making sure the perspective and lines were right when you brought it into first person. right now, it just looks bent, and while im not saying that everybody needs to block model their stuff, it would have benefitted from a bit more time i suspect!
i've always been a sucker of long barreled simple snipers, however this is almost too simple... this is the ipod of sniper rifles! i admire your design, and your decision to render it in vector, however, its just not appealing to me for more than a few seconds, as nothing really draws you into it. - also the scope would be really really hard to use!
another very sci-fi feeling gun, with a good render, however conceptually for me is where it falls apart, in addition to having a rather harsh background color. ultimately the design really doesn't convey how it works, what it fires, or how its comfortably held. right now i don't know if its an energy weapon, or a conventional weapon. also in regards to the stereoscopic scope, while a good idea, you have to take into account how the user would get both of his eyes looking into it. a compromise would have been having the user plug his own helmet/goggles into a stereoscopic scope, (similar to my data plug scope)
after looking at this for multiple minutes, considering the only thing i can fault it on is the monopod this puppy gets my vote... everything from the full ball gyroscope, the cross muzzle break and the scope's sunshade that could double as a bayonet i love the styling of this! it really has a feel of something that would kill vampires... in the future... with impunity... ultimately... this is fairly a pure form of badass!
Last edited by Legato; December 4th, 2007 at 09:23 PM.
thanks for the honesty guys, much appretiated. And to be totally honest, by the time i got round to doing the scope and especialy the first person view, my enfusiasm that i had in the beginning for this was pretty much gone. And probably the main reason i even got it finished was becouse i thought i should finish at least one of these projects. I did learn one valuable lesson from this however, if your going to do something, then do it properly and not just half arsed. But all in all i think this was a good round, always interesting to see all the different approaches.
I thought pretty hard about who I was going to vote for, in the end I chose zutiola. it was hard choosing between legatos and forms, they were both well drawn and thought out. and I know the 3rd person was lackin on zuts, I really liekd the old fashioned steampunk style.
anyways, thnx for the crit legato, you are right about the character, in fact the entire piece of mine could have used much more love and attention ( and I'm kind of dissapointed with myself) but I'm learning and that's what this place is for...thats all for me this round, on to the next!
Is there a way to post on the concept art site - These forums have crashed my server before??
Whatcha mean exactly?
Edit: Though this is also probably the wrong thread to ask technical questions in. You'd get a faster response from the general sections.
Last edited by form2function; December 5th, 2007 at 06:06 PM.
Legato to the rescue.
Oh, and you're totally right about the vampire-slayer feel. Everything about it screams that, even down to my color choices of the presentation. Heck even the name has a "dark" theme to it. And you know what's funny, all week I've been micro-managing the details and refining this curve or that feature that it didn't occur to me at all until you mentioned it. It must have been working on a fully subconscious level. Wish I had seen it before though as I might have pumped that angle even more, maybe thrown in some UV bullets or something.
And about the monopod (assuming you mean the rotating stand)... I know it seems a little flimsy and I did in fact plan to work on it a bit more before I got slammed with work. What I had originally intended was for it to break backwards towards the end with a locking hinge, so that it at least gives more surface against the ground. Or maybe a pair of tiny horizontal bars that unhinged when extended and hid in the barrel when closed. However the reason I went for a single stand to begin with as opposed to a pair, was that the gyro did such an excellent job of stabilizing that you could literally balance it on a pin and still have fairly accurate aim. Perhaps a stretch in realistic terms, but in the realm of fictional theory it worked for me. If it wasn't for the gyro though, I would have definitely given it something a lot more stable. And sorry if I'm rambling, it's because I actually gave the problem some thought early on.
voted for Legato, seemed like it would translate the best out of the entries into an actual fps shooter
I'm a disaster, I nearly forgot voting!.
Voted for form2function, the best presentation for me on this round, also love the different designs for the butt and rounds.
I miss the scope view In some of the designs but is true that it was not request on the briefing.
"And so came to be his first battle won... in the proving grounds of IDW, where he belonged."
A big thank you to those who voted on mine. It's a minor victory in the weekly grand scheme of things, but it's my first so I will always remember it fondly. And I couldn't have done it without the knowledge, and more importantly the push, from the community here. So hats off to you all.
I would also like to thank my muse for all the inspiration she freely parted with, my family for their understanding and support, my agent...
Just kidding. Thanks ya'll.
hey, well done! high five
a deserved win with a well though out, well executed product.
Form2function: Cheers mate Now if only I found the time to update the winners thread...