well, not really...but:
the situation is approaching absurdity.
well, not really...but:
the situation is approaching absurdity.
Dang, that sucks, and Iceland was one of the places I thought would be safe to move to if America went to shit. Oh well.
why does everyone keep fooling me I click in the thread and then the topic doesnt truly hold up to the title :( im telling on you!!
Ironically my plan is China, Korea, or Japan. If I were to go to Europe it would be Amsterdam (for a while)...
That's interesting news considering the oil sources in dispute around the North Pole. I'd presume this means that Iceland would relinquish its claims, should the loan go through.
bearing in mind that iceland has no military force whatsoever and is a nato country, this will most likely be a step by step show of russian economic / political / military force if it goes through.
Yeah, this has really not been a good day for us. First I get a cold, now we're turning into a Russian suburbia?
But in all seriousness, things are getting pretty fucked up here.
However, I do believe that the loan from Russia hasn't gone through completely, yet. The news of them 'buying' us have been exaggerated somewhat ;) Norway has also stepped forward and offered to help us out, even though we didn't ask. Such kindness. :D
But we certainly need the help, we're facing bankruptcy if we don't do something fast. These really aren't happy times.
I hope you take Norway’s offer because I’d hate to read the small print of the loan from Russia.
I agree, I'd prefer to be in debt to Norway. The amount of money Russia's offering to loan is freaking huge, $5.4 billion, it's going to take forever and some to repay that. Not a happy luggage to the next generations! And being on their bad side on pay day is not somehing I'd want anyone to experience.
However, I saw that Norway's loan is 'only' about 1/8 of the sum Russia's offering. From what I've heard, that's probably not enough. So I don't know what they'll end up doing, but so far, no decision has been taken regarding the loan.
Heh, a rumour is going on here about Norway's sudden kindness. So they've already got Russia to the East and also to the North. If Russia'd loan us, Norway'd be facing Russian territory to the West as well! So they hurried up and offered us a hand to prevent that :p (Does kinda make sense, don't it..?)
Peter, realistically speaking, I'm afraid you're going to need to pick another country for your fallback plan ;) Honestly, no matter from whom we get the loan from, difficult times are ahead. So I heard the Faroe Islands are doing pretty swell!
I've also considered moving to other parts of Europe (I speak German passably well and Switzerland seems independant enough that they might hold up even if America and the EU crashes. Though considering how well they can seel off their country to the outside world the thought of a mass refugee influx might cause them to shut off their borders.)
Asia would be a consideration, but Japan doesn't seem culturally to be the type of country to take to kindly to immigration, and anywhere else I'd be worried about China (or N. Korea if I were in S. Korea) taking over in a world where the Western powers are too busy with their own problems to do anything about it.
Faroe Islands you say? I'll have to look into that.
edit: oooh, after some research those faroe Islands seem pretty cool! Out of curriosity, how close is the Faroese language to Icelandic? I see now that both come from Old Norse, but are they similar enough that people from Iceland can understand Faroese?
The best had probably been if more nordic countries threw themselves on it, since Glitnir and Kaupthing is represented in most of the countries I think? At least they are here in Norway, so it's a natural thing to do.
If you could take what we could offer, and THEN got some more offers from, say Sweden or Finland, it would help out. I don't think Denmark is in a position to help out right now, they're too busy with their own banks?
It's kinda funny though, I think Iceland must be the only country in the world where the banks have been so successful that their money is nine times more than their own countrys BNP... Which is of course how this could happen in the first place :/
But at least the Icelandic Krone is frozen now, right? That means that you exchange the valuta in the banks to € or something similar as fast as possible so your capital doesn't plummet....
And yeah. Imagine Norway quarrel with Russia about fishing quotas and sea borders if they're heavily behind Iceland as well... *lol*
Edit: And Peter.... Norwegian is the language that seems to be in the middle of everything. I can read and understand all the Scandinavian/Nordic languages except Finnish which is not related..... People from Iceland just has to speak a little slower than Swedes and Danes... And people from the Faraoes usually speaks Norwegian, Icelandic or Danish as well, I think. Most people I've met from there speaks passable Norwegian, at least.
"Though considering how well they can seel off their country to the outside world the thought of a mass refugee influx might cause them to shut off their borders."
See, now that's you thinking like an American. ;)
I met a slovak architect (the one who's designing my house), and he had a story to tell. He fled Slovakia back in the sixties, when the Russians invaded. He went to Switzerland as a refugee with his family, and didn't speak any other language. They took him and a bunch of other Slovaks in, fed him, and found him a place to stay in a small village, and even found him work as an architect. He then learned French, Italian, Spanish, and English, went on to travel the world, and then came back here once Slovakia gained independence.
Maaaan what the hell I thought the ruskies were actually buying you guys up......It would have made a great game.
God forbid the situation ever get that bad, but if it does I'm not sure what our options would be. Switzerland will have its own people to take care of. I would be eternally grateful if they chose to take me in in a situation like that, but honestly, I can totally understand anyone not wanting to deal with me.
The thing that scares me about Iceland being in debt to another country (Im American, we know debt!) is that the buying country would "own" the lendee or atleast part of it. Controlling a large stake of a country's economy sets one up to knock it over or assimilate it. This is the new face of war in the first and second world countries. No longer is it so much about tanks and soldiers, but about controlling the economies and vital lines that keeps a nation going. Russia is not just being a good samaritin, I think they are setting up something big, a possible acquisition of sattilite countries.
Yeah.. these last days have been very.. eventful if one can put it so lightly :/
I think everyone lost their tongue when the news reported about the loan from Russia and our prime minister made the announcement that Iceland's "friends would not help, so we have to make new friends". When this was broadcast, Norway and Denmark said that Iceland hadn't even contacted them for help.. so like.. wtf? We Icelanders think of the scandinavian countries as our friends, so of course it would've been our first choice to go to. But apparently, the government had only looked to USA (good luck!) and Britain for help.
Have been wanting to move abroad for a long time now (really dislike my country and have for many years).. this just strengthens those feelings :/
And now it seems Gordon Brown wants to sue Iceland. O.o
So much for UK....
Kaupthings and Glitnirs customers here in Norway is safe, as they're mostly under the Norwegian bank guarantee. Maybe UK should've had something similar.
Like Eva mentioned, everyone gasped when one minister said our friends were giving us the finger, or so to speak. But apparently he wasn't referring to the Nordic countries :/ I just finished watching a press conference and there the prime minister said that all the Nordic nations are willing to give us a hand. (Seems like they've got some fucked up priorities!) It'd be ideal to get help from all of them, but I think that's too much a hassle. They said the final decision regarding the Russian loan will take place next Tuesday.
Sorknes, you're right, I think the krˇna has been frozen, but apparently it's not easy keeping it such, I dunno why. And yeah, the banks were actually making profit 12 times bigger than our BNP! Silly banks and their hybris. And indeed UK wants to sue us if the whole IceSave thing goes down the drain.
Also, I didn't know you Norwegians could understand us, that's funny! I thought they were too different. We only study Danish at school so when in Norway, we pretty much just speak that with a Norwegian accent ;)
I think Sedlabanki just gave up on freezing the kr˛na.... Ouch. :/
Well, most Norwegians understand Danish, hehe. ;)
It might be that I'm more language interested than most, and I've done my reading of really old texts (which of course is more related to Icelandic...) that might help me understand you more. But remember that we have so many dialects here that if you have a lil knowledge of all our dialects, you'll have most of Icelands words somewhere, or something very closely related to it, at least, heh.
I think the only ones that really has trouble understanding each other is Swedes and Danes...
It seems you're right, Sorknes, I just checked the news. Man, nothing's going right!
Ah, you're a language fan! I am too :D But I must admit that I didn't know Norwegian had such distinct dialects with some added Icelandic, although I knew you had some. Awesome! And yeah, Swedish is hard for us too to understand spoken. I can read it somewhat alright, but their pronuncation is so different from Danish and Norwegian that I just give up. And let's not started on Finnish ;)
If they gave up on the kr˛na, Tuesday is way too late to decide anything...
Time for your prime minister to do an allnighter and get those talks happening tomorrow or Friday methinks.
Well, your language (English - being American or not :P ) is one of the Germanic languages, and therefore related to the Scandinavian. And all the others of the Germanic branch, even if you're on the western branch and we Scandinavians are on the northern branch. So if you put a lil effort in, you'll actually start to realise that most of the words are related to each other. If you know a few Latin words as well, things starts to make even more sense. (Most people do, they just don't think realise it, Latin words are the base for a lot of English words even if Latin belongs to another branch with French, Italian, Spanish, etc...)
If you start comparing words in different languages (within the Germanic ones), you'll soon see that they're very related (good, god, gut... nose, nese, nase... etc). From there on it's not hard to get an understanding of other languages just by observing, really. The Germanic ones, at least. And you'll see that Spanish, Italian and Dutch weren't that hard after all, heh.
Russian and Finnish will still be garbled letters put together though, they're not Germanic nor belonging to the Latin branch, but the Slavic :P
When it comes to the old English, you can actually understand a lot of it from there. Latin helps. So does knowing some of the old Norse. The vikings, kings and warriors as well as the commerce people, made the Germans, British and Scandinavian swap and exchange a lot of words. So you'll find several related to old Norse in the English texts. Old Norse developed into what is today the different Scandinavian languages, Icelandic being the most related, but they all have their core in the old Norse, which makes it easy for people to understand each other.
Basically, that is for both the current languages and the old written stuff, is that if you manage to find the "core" of the word, you'll find out what it actually means or at least help you find out the meanings of the other words surrounding it if you have some comparison material. The core is usually found by ditching all weird endings and extra letters... heh. Of course, the contexts can be really different because of the time or cultural difference, and you won't grasp it anyway. :P
So reading old English (even with French, Latin and Norse influence) isn't that hard to read even without the education for doing it properly, just shave the words right and use time. Some of the problem you'll find though, is that at one point, sometime after the Norse influence the proper language to speak in noble circles were Norman French. So the text will be mostly either Latin or Norman French. Later again, it turns English, just with the influence.
And I can't fucking believe I just used a thread about Icelands economy to write that.
Now Norway has stopped shortsale on the stock market as well, after suspicious movements today....
Awesome post, Sorknes :D I love historical linguistics. Peter, what she said makes perfect sense, if you're really interested in studying Scandinavian languages, it's not as hard as it looks like. English is basically a mixed bag of languages, the biggest ones being Latin and Greek, but the Germanic ones are certainly huge as well.
You said you only get a chance to study one other foreign language, I'm guessing Spanish? Or can you choose from several, like French and such? That's a realy pity that your education system doesn't support more language teaching. I'm a big language nut myself, that was my major in high school. But if you'd ever have to end up taking asylum in the Nordic countries, I'm sure that the language won't be a big barrier!
Man, we're hijacking this thread with linguistic discussions. Much more interesting stuff, in my opinon, but well.
I just saw on the news that we took a big loan from a Swedish bank. Not on the same scale as the Russian one, but that's something. Really don't know enough about it to elaborate, though.
Finnish is in no way a slavic language. As far as I know it goes in par ith the hungarian language but essentially it's something entirely different, beginning with it's ridiculous ammount of cases (I think 28 or something). Crazy finns! On the other hand, it IS a big country full of nothing haha! I also heard that it somehow derived from the branch lithuanian is of as well. Although I also heard that the baltic languages are early indo-germanic languages so it's really a mess in that respect.
On the language-issue, I oppose learning languages in school. The didactic methods are insufficient and at most fit to somehow get to kno a language. If you want to speak it, you have to emerge in another language, I kno it sounds starnge for americans and british and other monolingual cultures. But learning a language is a rather natural proces. If you ant to talk to someone, you'll learn it sooner or later. That goes for finnish too btw. The only reason noone learns it is that nobody bloody needs its and the finns don't even want people to learn it (There have been 0 persons granted finnish citizenship that weren't born there. With Schengen and all that shabang you don't really need it to live there, though.)
Asa, if your house gets bought you can stay at my place! ^_^/
Finno-Ugric language , thus related to Hungarian and very close to Estonian.
And, I wasn't born in Finland but I got Finnish citizenship. Same thing for my 3 brother and sisters. Surely we aren't the only ones. I don't know where you got your 0 number from.
PS : Finland is a beautiful country :)
Aw thanks, Hannes, you're such a sweetheart! :^^: I will certainly keep that in mind if things go wrong!
Faust, I believe Finnish has 15 cases? If I remember correctly. But sure, if you also count plural, I guess it's somewhat more! However, I disagree with you on stop teaching languages in school. You're right that learning new languages is a natural process--but really only until you reach the age of 10 or so. After that the natural ability to pick up a new one seems to fade drastically, so has been proved. And since only a handful of kids get the chance to be exposed to a new language at that age, the rest has to settle on the didactic school system. I agree that many things could be improved there, but surely wiping all language education out of the system isn't the anwer? :)
And it's certainly vital for complete language mastery to live and thrive where said language is spoken. But I've studied 5 foreign languages myself (although 2 dead ones) and I've managed just fine to converse in the other 3 living ones :) I'd still need to live there to get be an expert, but my school knowledge has gotten me very far. But then again, I'm a language nut. If it weren't for my need to draw, I'd be off somewhere studying linguistics and obscure languages :D
Also, it's a pity not more people study Finnish. I've actually wanted to study it for years myself, I find it fascinating. Not to mention a beautiful country with a rich culture and history. Plus, I think most Icelanders really connect to Finns! We seem to share the same attitude, I like them :D